So guys - I thought I did a pretty good job of expressing that the weight gain being a major contributing cause for my injury was my belief, and I certainly didn't post it as irrefutable fact.


Seems kinda like I'm just posting from experience as I've played ball a long time, and while I've had my share of sprains, chipped teeth, bloody XXX, I'd landed from routine lay ups 1000s of times before in exactly the same way and only after gaining a decent amount of weight did I injure my knee.

As far as 'just making crap up', I was really thinking about articles I've read in the past like THIS ONE that says

"As mentioned above, the principal reason for baseball injuries associated with steroid use is that the increase of muscle mass or increased speed associated with anabolic steroid use is not accompanied by a proportionate increase in strength of the tendons, ligaments and joints"

Again, I'm not a doctor, I haven't researched in depth, and I'm certainly not on steroids (as you can probably tell from my log #'s), however the correlation that I see here is that one puts on strength and size more rapidly than their tendons / ligaments can gain proportionately, the athlete is more prone to this type of injury.

I'm sure if you want to continue to flame me for giving my perspective from an empirical and theoretical standpoint, you can, but really I was just trying to share my experience with someone who asked for it, and think the rapid tone shift is pretty unnecessary.

Steroid use is not the same as getting your muscles & tendons & ligaments all stronger by lifting weights appropriately.

I'm not saying you're full of crap or anything, but my knees and other joints feel a hell of a lot better now at age 46 and 232 lbs than they did at age 45 and 219 lbs. I'd venture a guess that other factors contributed to your joint issues.

5/2 log

My left thumb got jammed in bball yesterday and I have a big bruise on my palm. Gripping anything thin is quite painful atm. Luckily I was able to get through everything without any issues until my last 2 DL reps. I had to regrip in between those reps (which allowed me to also refocus on keeping my back tight and lower back straight). I'm a bit worried I've already started stalling with Press, but I dno, I guess I'll see. Now for the routine:

Foam rolling - I did a lot on my left leg/IT band area. Every time I roll it it basically is tingly for all stretching I do. I used to have to run 2-3 miles before it would get tingly, and not in a very good way.

Lacrosse ball - I really hit my rhomboid area muscle the last couple days with the ball and I feel like it's what's been missing from my life the last few years. I *always* have sore tissue/muscle/whatever right next to the insides of my upper shoulder blades. This lets me hit those knots.

Mobility/activation - I found a way to do the quad stretch Cha showed me that's 124324 x better than what I was doing. Many my left quad was tingly (I was careful not to stretch it too much).

Squats
45x5x3
70x3x1
95x2x1
120x5x3

I know my knees wobbled in on the last rep or two. I felt like I was doing these much more "correctly" after the box squats I did on Saturday. Buuut, the last rep was definitely tough to get up until I dug in with what was likely my quads.

Press
45x5x3
55x3x1
65x2x1
80x5x2 (my last reps for each set I barely got up)
80x4x1 (ehhh, still better than last Press workout)

DL (I forgot to take my shoes off for Squats but I did for DLs and it felt very comfortable and good, I was worried my arch would get messed up from pressure on my foot but since it's mainly on the heel, it seems fine):
135x5x1
135x4x1
155x3x1
175x2x1
210x5x1

Besides my grip going a bit on the last couple DL reps I really concentrated on both the post Soulman linked to and video Cha linked to in his log to keep my back and everything else tight and squeeeeeze the bar up. This was the first time it really felt like I was "squeezing" it up rather than lifting it up. If that makes sense.

As for eating I'm also apparently eating an Oh Yeah! bar and an extra kashi cookie that was at work in addition to that stuff above. So, yeah, now that I'm paying attention, my old routine diet seems to be coming up short so I'm going to bring more food to work.

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement .

Those pictures don't look appetizing at all! I think it's the lighting. Man that food looks lifeless and like it's been sitting out for hours, lol. If you want me to get unfraid of meat, just link to glamor shots of bison burgers & grilled fish man!

That being said, I'm pretty sure a couple of those would look super delicious to me real time fresh off the whatever.

nice work.

Were you holding your breath during the reps like SM suggested? That makes a huge difference. Do it for all your lifts.

Since your grip is getting iffy, use a mixed grip for the DL from now on. Just turn one hand in & one out. Switch hands between sets.

Try barefoot squats once and you should remember it from then on. It is soooo much more stable.

I'd stay at the same weight next time you press and get 3 sets of 5 good ones. Hold your breath during the whole time the weight is going up. Its ok to bounce off the bottom a little. Anyone have a different opinion?

As I said, I'd agree that I feel better as I get stronger an in better shape. I'd also agree that "Steroid use is not the same as getting your muscles & tendons & ligaments all stronger by lifting weights appropriately."

My point is simply that if you put on muscle mass fast, particularly with movements targeted at building mass quickly, that have no lateral component to them, your ligaments / tendons that support other planes of movement will likely not get stronger proportionally. To me, the really good noob gains I made were a decent percentage of my body weight pretty quickly, and I might argue that noob gains to an untrained frame, are proportionately greater than roid gains to a trained athlete. Is this true? I really don't know, but I'm just trying to explain what I believe to be the case with me.

Anyway, I'm certainly not saying that I'm 100% right, and it doesn't appear that others agree with me. However, I actually DO believe what I'm saying is the case with me.

That said, this thread is def not about me, and I only brought it up in the first place to relay my experience to someone I find in a similar position as I was. So I won't clog up the thread with any more controversial opinions (regarding this anyway).

Snipe--no hard feelings. I won't use the term making crap up outside of SE anymore. Either way, I think OP is doing things the right way. Given how many calories he's expending between lifting and playing, I don't think he really is in a position to be gaining that much weight to begin with.

GKA - no hard feelings indeed. As I said, for the most part I agree with you. I just think that sometimes we get a little stuck on 'bigger, stronger, SS / 531 / TM' here in H&F, and I wanted to share the only negative side of my training to kinda balance things out.

Yugo, as we have similar body types/ goals I thought I'd put in my .02. I put on 20lbs (got my bw over 180) and it helped my rec basketball game immensely. My speed, quickness and vert all improved. I kept my bf% under 12 tho, so ymmv

5/4 log - session 7

Was at work late but still made it into the gym. Btw, I have several very dark bruises from bball Sunday (I'm still finding them, lol), but none on my throat, .

foam rolling - the woman behind the counter just handed it to me without me having to say anything, SWEET! I did extra rolling b/c I was pissed off about work and my legs were cryin' out for it.

Mobility:
quadruped rotation
push-up plus (just the plus part sitll)
dynamic blackburns
split stance rotation
scapular wall slides (front & back)
supine straight leg raise
side lying hip abduction (actually, I forgot what this was again and didn't do it - is this where I just lie on my side and lift my leg up? also called a "side lying leg raise"?)
walking spiderman
ankle mobs
goblet squats

Activation
quad stretch (the good kind, I've found a way to do it at the gym)
supine bridge (with knees out for extra outside glute action)
clam shells

Then I did some lifting:

Squats (in socks - WAY better. Almost immediately got a Q about them from a diff guy who sometimes talks to me at the gym, lol)
45x5x3
70x3x1
95x2x1
120x5x2
125x5x3 (I didn't realize until my last set I was doing LAST SESSION'S program. Ugh)

Bench (first time at my gym)
45x5x2
60x5x1
80x3x1
105x2x1
120x5x3 (my g/f said the bar was straight up on 4/5 reps and the 5th I went out and up a bit more with my left hand, but apparently just slightly)

DL
135x5x1
135x3x1
155x3x1
185x2x1
220x5x1

Whew, I forgot to do a reverse grip like Cha advised and on the 3rd or 4th rep I remembered b/c I almost dropped the damn bar (my left palm still makes gripping a bit tough). I think it may be time for me to start bringing chalk to the gym and seeing if I can make that work to also help with the grip. I'm not sure if I did 4 or 5 reps with 220. Cha can attest to me horrific count during sets when I'm overthinking my lifts.

But I do think I "straightened" the **** out of my lower back. That 1241254 minute Rippetoe vid Cha posted in the other thread was exactly what I think I needed to see. My lower back felt like it was being hit, but b/c it was weak, not b/c I was rolling it.

Question: when should I stop doing DLs every workout? I know this isn't SS doctrine but I think Soulman suggested it until it got tougher. How tough? Until I can't pull 10 lbs more 5 times and use doing it less frequently as a "resetting" type thing?

Oh, I also did:

5 Pullups
5 Chins
5 Neutral grip

I think Cha mentioned it may be silly to do all different kinds back-to-back and instead just do as many of 1 type 1 or more times. Any advice on that as an additional thing to my core lifts? So far it's really the only "extra" thing I do.

DLing every workout actually is Rip doctrine, he added that in Practical Programming v. 2. There's no real limit, 2-3 weeks or whenever the 10 lbs increases start getting really tough. You're probably nearing the limit pretty soon. Then, move to switching between DLs and PCs (if that's your thing, or alternative lifts like horizontal pulls if not).

Doing lots of chins in addition to squatting and DLing isn't that good after a while imo, will probably affect your recovery too much. Chins are rotated into the programming after a while anyway. If you want to do more chins, I suggest getting a pull-up bar at home and doing GTG (grease the groove) sets. I.e. sets throughout the day 2-3 reps below your max.

Ab stuff is good to put at the end though.

5/5 log

I did a full sesh of mobility/activation stuff and did a bunch of extra rolling as I wasn't lifting and had more time.

I then just did a light shootaround for 30 minutes. The plam of my left hand is still quite bruised and so my lefty touch is off but I shot ~20 free throws and think I only missed 2. So my free throw shooting shouldn't be so broken I go 0/6 again in a game. That was really weird.

Ok, I can easily hold off on doing them for a while. I just thought they'd be good for upper body stuff as squats/dls is primarily lower body exercises imo.

What ab stuff is good to add that's recommended to do after SS type lifting?

One of the things I did with my old routine is this: http://www.coreabworkouts.com/ab-wor...-by-tuan-tran/. However, I did it on an inclined plane but the motion of holding on at the top and moving my legs down and then up is the same. Is this a good thing to do?

What kind of programming for abs makes sense?

Sure, those are dragon flags I believe. Very hard though. Others are weighted planks, ab wheel rollouts, barbell rollouts, pallof presses. See this article: http://articles.elitefts.com/article...s-and-sit-ups/.

I mostly add on 1 ab exercise at the end of my workout, switching between anti-flexion and anti-rotational. Progress will obviously be slower and dependent on the workout, e.g. planks will usually consist of adding time, then adding plates, then more time etc. 3 sets for everything, 10 reps or so for the other stuff.

DLs especially will definitely affect your upper body as well. Squats work the lower back/abs as well. Chins are good to GTG, but doing them heavy will be hard at the end of SS. You'll probably be fine to add them for a while and possibly at the tail end too, you'll have to find out for yourself how easily your recovery gets compromised.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ore_training_1

more core stuff: http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/...core-training/

http://www.wannabebig.com/training/d...ke-a-champion/

After watching you & reading through that, I think your glutes & hamstrings are the biggest problems with your hips rising too fast in the DL. Add pull throughs & / or KB swings to the stuff you're already doing. Especially if you cut back to DLing once or twice a week - on the days you dont DL, I think you should do 3 work sets of pull throughs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvnPS1HaPh4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beaTuPAxa0U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3IRODzdX-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy5rIcmIej0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ7NBe729tg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2Y9FUR50k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f63AKYDQ2HQ

5/6 log

Did foam rolling, mobility, and activation routine. Then went to go do light shooting in the gym but I got kicked out. I've gotten kicked out like 6+ times the last 2 months b/c they apparently are incapable of updating their gym schedule. So I was pretty fired up about that. Hopefully that gets resolved so if/when I'm ready to do basketball drills that require the gym, I an plan for them. Right now whether I can use it or not seems completely random.

So instead I went running outside as it was gorgeous. I ran almost 3 miles and didn't feel anything in my leg. Which is the first time since I hurt it like 2-3 years ago that I've run that far (without first running ~1-2 miles a few days earlier) without feeling anything. I think the foam rolling is working!

5/7 log

Workout at Cha's!

Did foam rolling/mobility/activation and he showed me a couple things with the lacrosse ball I definitely should be doing so now I can hit my posterior shoulder and upper back even better.

Squats
45x5x2
50x5x1
75x3x1
100x2x1
130x5x1
130x5x1
130x5x1

While I think I'm doing better now that I'm doing Squats in my socks, I'm still having trouble keeping my knees out and driving up without having a "hitch" where I pause. Also, when I concentrate on those things then sometimes I don't get enough depth. I agree with Cha that it seems my hams/glutes simply aren't strong enough and it's affecting this although I still would like advice on how to do it better.

Press
45x5x3
45x3x1
65x2x1
80x5x1
80x5x1
80x5x1 (no video of this one)

I'd love any advice on the press. I've been doing 80lbs all week and this was the first session I was able to do all 5 reps on all 3 sets. Buuut, it was definitely difficult and I'm not sure my form is great. Should I do one more day at 80lbs or move up to 85?

DL
135x5x1
135x3x1
195x2x1
230x5x1

I finally figured out what to do with my lower back to keep it fairly tight, BUT for some reason I'm not doing it when going down, and I am having trouble keeping my butt down when I start, I seem to want to have my back completely parallel to the ground. Again this could be weak ham/glutes, although I also think it has to do with how I used to do straight-leg dumbbell deadlifts where I'd keep my back completely parallel to the ground and I'm simply super used to it.

Any advice on this or just get my glutes/hams stronger?

Also, since my DLs are definitely getting "hard" should I drop down to once a week yet or keep doing 'em every workout for a couple more sessions?

5/8 log

We got completely wrecked in our basketball game yesterday. I think were down 20+ most of the way in the 2nd half. My line was something like 0 shots and not tons of rebounds. It was like we were the Lakers.

Anyway, the other team was better, played more like a team, hit most of their 3s and we bitched at each other and our guys who dominate the ball got all pissy and just forced our offense for the game. And barked at me when I passed up a chance to shoot b/c the pass was literally at my feet and I figured shooting not in rhythm for me was worse than trying to get it inside to our guy who had position. Meh.

I need to get stronger so I can influence a game like that more even without the ball. Or become an offensive threat and then just take over, .

Please read this: http://articles.elitefts.com/article...m_medium=email

There are 222 amino acids and nine are considered essential, meaning they can’t be made by the body and must be obtained through diet. When the essential amino acids aren’t obtained in the diet, the body’s protein production ability is seriously impaired and many negative side effects (deficiency diseases) including death can occur, depending on the length and degree of deficiency.

Dietary proteins containing all the essential amino acids are complete proteins and considered to have a high biological value. Proteins of animal origin (meat, dairy products, eggs, and fish) are complete with eggs having the highest biological value. Proteins lacking one of the essential amino acids are incomplete and have a lower biological value. Incomplete proteins are usually of plant origin (grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds). This may pose difficulty for both vegetarian athletes and non-athletes. When all the essential amino acids aren’t consumed in the same meal or within one hour of each other, the body’s ability to make new protein (build muscle) is adversely effected. As a result, other amino acids can’t be used optimally, which causes increased nitrogen excretion (possible/probable cannibalization of lean muscle tissue). The body thrives on homeostasis (steady state or balance). It has an incredible ability to adapt and heal itself when functioning optimally. This balance is a tension of opposites. Too much on either end of the spectrum can create dysfunction or illness. The body will get the amino acids it needs by diet or cannibalizing lean muscle tissue.

You've been hearing some of this from me, but I figured this might back up what I've been saying.

Cha - I already know this so I'm not sure how helpful it is. I've already said I know what complete protein is and incomplete protein is. Eating complete protein to just live a healthy, active lifestyle isn't that crucial imo, you general get enough as long as you eat a varied diet. But obviously if your goals are different than something that basic, more planning is involved.

I don't have a great plan yet for how I'm going to get "enough" protein to make gains and get stronger. But while I think I'll have to make some changes, I generally think the 200g/day of protein is ridiculous. I don't want to be eating that much protein again each day. It's kind of gross.

5/9 log

Worked late but still got to the gym and got it all in.

Did a lot of foam rolling, lacrosse ball and the usually mobility/activation stuff. Man, there are places on my body I had no idea could use the work!

Squats
45x5x2
50x5x1
80x3x1
105x2x1
135x5x3

I still have trouble with my work sets in terms of driving up and also keeping my knees in. Any advice based on the videos Cha took a couple days ago in post 93 is appreciated!

Bench
45x5x2
65x5x1
85x3x1
110x2x1
125x5x3

My wrist was kind of sore on the last sets of these. Perhaps it's because my left hand is still kind of injured and I was compensating but not keeping the bar low in the palm of my hand. I dno, I'll pay more attention next time.

DL
135x5x1
135x4x1
140x3x1
200x2x1
240x4x1
240x1x1

I felt my grip sliding a bunch on the 4th rep of my work set. But then it took me like 15 seconds to realize that I could do a reverse grip and go underhand with my left (slightly injured) hand. The grip was so much easier to hold doing that and I didn't have any trouble with the last rep. But maybe that's also b/c I waited so long in between. Meh, I still think I can go up in this even though I'm pretty sure my muscles aren't working in concert on this super well. When I do go down to 1 DL/week, I will start doing a bunch of pull throughs as Cha advised. I think that should really help my glutes, which seem to be complete crap.

Again, I'd love any advice on form in post 93.

Yugo I replied in the form check thread to those vids:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=827

Carl - thanks, that's really helpful! I will study that tomorrow. I try really hard to start with my elbows out on the Press. But, yeah, now that I look they aren't really out.

Heh, I was same way man. Then one glorious day I got the technique correct (on the press) and it was so much easier.