Game update? Also, what position do you play?

5/1 log

The game went well for us and we won, up ~10pts most of the way. We're now 4-0, one of 2 unbeaten teams! (there are a few 4-1 teams too).

A few words about my game:

I'll start with the bad news. I missed every free throw I took in this game. And I took more than I normally do (I took at least 5). I know, I know, Benny Wallace-esque. When I shot around a couple days ago my free throw shooting was weird too and it took me ~4 or 5 starting misses to get into any sort of normal rhythm. I "think" I'm off b/c of squats and stuff as I've never done them before, but who knows. I don't feel upset about it and didn't feel too much pressure. A couple games ago I calmly hit 3 free throws in a row at the end of a tight game. *shrug*

The good news is that I got an "and 1" near the beginning of the game (obv I missed the 1), grabbed a couple offensive rebounds, getting poked in the eye during one where my contact got misaligned so for a second or two and I thought maybe I was super hurt as everything was blurry. Then I came back in the game, got some more o-boards, got a couple of loose balls and for the second game in a row got pushed/punched in the throat drawing a technical foul.

Yeah, I'm just as confused as you are. First, why my throat? Second, both times it was after loose ball type stuff, I wasn't even fouling (let alone fouling hard). Third, 2 games in a row?! Of course both times I was able to get out of the way enough to not hurt myself but also just enough so that I got knocked down. Maybe it's b/c when the other team gets mad at me I just am really calm. I used to have a big temper issue when playing so I try really really hard to just stay calm and reasonable. So perhaps that really pisses them off as I just say analytically logical things when they taunt/get mad or whatever. I have no clue.

Anyway, I missed those free throws too but got another o-board at some point and got a basket.

So my line probably looked something like (this is extremely inaccurate): 4 points on 2-4 shooting (missed my 2 jumpers), 0-6 or something FTs, 5+ rebounds (I really never can remember) - mostly offensive, 1-4 assists, and several loose balls I either caused or came up with.

I'd care a lot more about the FTs if the game was ever that close. And I think it's kind of fun for the "worst player" on the other team to out-hustle everyone to the point that they're so pissed off they try to punch him in the throat for no reason. So good game, .

(although I'm icing my thumb as it got sprained pretty to really badly on one of those way too hard passes from one of my teammates, meh)

Hmmm, I have no idea. Not 1 and not 5, . I guess I play more like a 4 or a 3 but I'm the 2nd shortest on my team. We play a 2-3 zone on defense and I play everything but middle. I never played in a zone until a few months ago on this team and I finally think I play in it well. I don't always make the best choice, but I rarely make poor choices and do a great job hustling, which seems to be helpful in zone defense.

On offense I run around setting picks and going to where no one else is? I do a much better job not getting in the way than I did but I still don't really have a "spot" or emphatically call for the ball. But I do try to cut to the hoop if I see an opening. The pass usually is too hard or too late though, lol. Like today I was open twice in position for likely a clear layup or foul opportunity and the pass just was too hard and/or not to my hands. They weren't difficult passes to make either, maybe they rush because they have no faith in finishing skills, I dno.

And when I get the ball I *always* look for cutters, the problem is, we don't have cutters! So my next thought is always to go inside and if that's not there I swing it. My teammates sometimes yell at me to swing first but I think that's ******ed. We should be able to get an open 3 whenever we want just by setting a screen, but getting cutters or someone with good down low position is $$.

Questions:

1) Anyone know what I should be doing on offensive free throws to get rebounds? I think I literally have zero for my 5x5 career. I just can never get around the guy in front of me it seems.

2) Anyone have tips for what I should be doing on offense given my team consists mainly of chuckers? It seems when I get the ball I don't look to shoot fast enough, or I don't work hard enough to get it at a spot I know what to do at b/c I don't know what spot to fight for. So I usually just am always swinging or hoping someone passes it to me on the baseline when they're getting doubled.

1. Defense grabs the vast majority of these anyway. In the NBA I think it's around 92 percent, probably a little less in rec leagues. Because the balls are shot so softly on free throws, and two people have inside position, it's just natural for the defense to get it easily. Your best bet is to probably go around the outside of the rebounder and try to Rondo it from him if he doesn't grip it hard off the miss.

2. When I play in games with stronger players, I mostly do what you do. Set picks, offensive rebound, leave space for better offensive players to operate. If you have a good post player, be in a spot where you can create a triangle with him and the point guard to help the ball gain entry to the post.

hey OP, you should weigh more, this will help you out in basketball. at 6 feet tall you should definitely weigh more than 170 pounds. the extra muscle will also help prevent injuries.

+1

This advice is somewhat suspect though on this forum. That's what everyone would say whether it's true or not.

That being said...I'd assume I can can some more weight without losing too much other stuff as long as I'm just just getting fat.

what stuff are you afraid of losing?

He used to be a little overweight. I understand his concern about getting fat, but he really needs to eat more - especially more high quality protein.

Yugo - fwiw, the guy telling you to gain weight is a soccer player & not big or fat. Bruiser - what do you weigh?

So I agree and disagree with gaining weight. I really loved having the extra weight and strength for hoops. As I think I made mention of above, strength really helps you box out (which would be good for you as you seem to like to board - which personally I think is GREAT tho as someone who boxes out aggressively and boards I can tell you first hand, you won't get credit for it). It also helps in the post, defensively, finishing, etc. It might mess with your shot for a bit, but as you don't seem to care too much about offensive game, that shouldn't stop you.

THAT SAID - I feel that the extra weight I put on is the primary cause for my ACL injury. I don't mean to scare you, and while I don't have any hard 'proof', I think I gained more weight than my tendons could handle, and that's why I popped the ACL.

Still, adding lower body strength, especially with the way you play, will definitely benefit your hoops career.



Also - CHA - NICE FREAKING HOME SETUP!!!! If you had a nice set of bumper plates I may have died of envy.

You're doing too much weight for too many reps near your workset. Go to http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi..._and_Downloads and get the warm-up calc.

Squats:
- Side angle is very nice to get as well, so next time get one from the side if at all possible
- You're going down veeeery slow - try upping the speed
- Until you get new shoes, just squat barefoot instead
- Your grip is very wide - is this because of lack of flexibility? If not, close it up a bit. More stability.
- Doesn't look like you take a big breath and really tighten the **** out of your lower back before you go down. This is pretty much the key to good squats. BIIIIG breath and TIIIIIGHT lower back.

DL:
- Take off the shoes, barefoot is way better if you have squishy shoes
- You're making the classic novice mistake of pulling with your back/arms, causing tension to dissipate in your glutes/hams. Focus on pulling the bar towards you, pushing your heels through the floor. And gently squeeze the bar off the floor, don't jerk it.
- You don't reset your position properly between reps. Before doing rep 2, you don't tighten your back nor push your chest up at all.
- The last few reps are basically stiff-legged DLs. Bend your knees and reset properly before each rep.
- If you haven't seen it, follow Rip's DL set-up guide and you'll be all set.

Snipe,

You are making crap up. Anywhere between Shaun Livingston and Dejuan Blair, ballers of varying sizes have all torn their ACL's. Even athletic freaks like Amare, Blake Griffin and Tony Allen have had their knees pop and had to sit for a year. Having stronger legs will definitely lower the incidence of injury, and will more than make up for the added weight. Things you can control to prevent knee injuries:

-good ankle and hip mobility (the joints above and below the knee)
-good hamstring/quad strength ratio (most people are quad dominant)
-jump training

And it sounds like OP is definitely doing the first two, and will be implementing the third soon. The "gain more weight and get injured" theory might hold more weight for a distance runner getting a stress fracture or tendonitis, but as far as preventing major injuries, strength will help a great deal.

good post GKA - Yugo, fwiw the guy making this post is not huge either.

thanks Snipe

good stuff SM

I'll try this for the next couple of games. If I can't Rondo it maybe I can Yugo it, .

Thanks for the really helpful link! I assume for DLs I can start at 135 as my gym has no bumper plates or whatever it is and 45 plates keep the bar at the right height off the floor. Is this correct?

Wow, and your feedback on the videos is realllly helpful. Just fyi my really wide grip on the squats was b/c the outside of my upper arm between triceps/shoulder was really sore. I think that area of my body is still getting used to holding the bar for squats and keeping my elbows back for a tight upper back.

As for barefoot, I'm not sure my gym will allow that. I could have at Cha's though and will try next time.

Nope I don't take a big breath. I'm still used to breathing in and out as I lift from how I used to do lifting.

For DLs Cha and you gave me great Rippetoe links so I'll check those out more carefully.


This tends to make sense to me. I think there is some element of weight involved for basketball injuries but by far more important is this other type of stuff. And I'm nowhere near big enough for my weight to be an injury issue as long as I'm having my body adjust to any weight gains, appropriately. Hopefully my warmup/mobility stuff will ensure this moving forward. I can say right now that my quads/IT band are still pretty messed up to some degree and from what I understand these are pretty important to the knee as well as pretty much everything else.

That being said, I do think there is some point in there from Snipe, either that your body tendons/ligaments, etc. have to be able to handle the weight properly and also that at some point, being heavier will give diminishing returns and may increase injury risk. Although, I was certainly playing a bunch of pickup basketball on my way from 220 lbs to 160 lbs and dodged any significant injuries with my luckbox (although I wasn't playing at all at 220, I could barely jog a mile slowly).

The main reason I'm somewhat reluctant to gain weight isn't b/c I'm too worried about "being fat" necessarily, it's b/c being thinner seems like a more optimal (to me anyway) life choice long-term. There is a diet component to this as well that I still think would be counterproductive to get into for at least another couple of weeks as I still have plenty to concentrate on with lifting and my basketball approach.

Anyway, I realize I probably won't go back down to 160lbs on this program (lol) but I'm hoping I can trade fat weight for strength gains and some muscle gains.

For the style I play, though, Being a very strong 180-190lbs would be a HUGE difference I imagine. I'm not quite ready to set goals yet as I just made up that number....next month would be the earliest I might start making more specific goals like that.

Yeah start with 135. I'd try lifting in your socks and see if you get any reactions. Just take your shoes off immediately before lifting and put them back on afterwards. I did this in my old gym for a year with no reactions even if it wasn't allowed.


FYI, gaining e.g. 15 lbs of muscle (which is decent) would mean a massive 150 cals extra required for maintenance. Not exactly earth-shaking. From these posts I'm thinking that's not what you mean though and that you're either vegan or vegetarian, heh...

Alright, that's just the excuse I need. I can always say 'well Soulman said it was cool, my bad.'

Yeah, something like that. I don't eat any meat at home or purchase any to prepare at home. When I go out (2-3 times per week) I just eat whatever though and often have leftovers (not recently, perhaps why I've been gaining a bit more weight even before this new routine).

My g/f is vegetarian but definitely not Vegan. Just for kicks, here is what I'm eating today:

1) breakfast: grapenuts cereal + lowfat vanilla soy milk
2) morning: chocolate chip cliff bar
3) lunch: egg salad sandwich (~2 eggs) + apple + two big handfuls of baby carrots + 2 stalks of celery
4) afternoon: curried chickpeas (~4.5 oz.) + brown rice (~3oz.?) + orange. The only reason I know the weight is I was dividing them up for my g/f and myself last night.
5) dinner: salad + grapes + boca burger (will add cheddar cheese imo)
6) evening: greek yogurt + mixed nuts lightly salted

Tomorrow #1-4 will be somewhat similar or comparable but for 5+6 I'm eating at "The Lowbrow" (http://thelowbrowmpls.com/) where I'm likely going to eat either the Homemade Fishsticks or Fire Breather Burger. Whatever these come with will almost surely all be eaten. I'm a sight eater so not eating some of it will only be likely if we somehow get some big appetizer I eat most of. Thus, I likely won't eat anything for #6. Maybe a piece of fruit if I feel like I may be getting hungry.

So there is where I'm at now. I was 160lbs when I ate out less being unemployed 1.5+ years ago. I was 166 recently and then gained about 4 lbs recently from (I assume) eating out a bit more and possibly now eating more due to the lifting I'm doing. I've noticed I'm often having something to eat when I get home before #5 and still eat the same amount for dinner.

More protein in some form will become necessary after a while. Protein powder will help. A lot.

Yeah, I know what this is, .

Just as an fyi, for two periods of my life I ate a 40/40/20 diet and had over 200g of protein/day. Much of it coming from powder. I wasn't eating enough to get stronger though which was kind of rigged as I didn't realize it at the time.

I can't comment on the specifics of your injury, but it doesn't mesh well with my experience or with what I think is logical. More weight (more muscle) means more strength... which means injury prevention and faster recovery. It is intuitive too. Who is gonna get injured in a game of basketball first, ronnie coleman or a holocaust survivor? A marathon runner or a powerlifter?

Yugo, you weigh 170 pounds at 6 feet tall, you are tiny. I am sure I would see you as a fish on the basketball court. Think about lebron james, he is a big dude, but do you think, "uh oh, i hope he doesn't injure himself?" I personally think, "wow, look at that animal. he is too good, he could run over and kill another basketball player without noticing it."

Finally, it is very, very hard to gain weight while playing a sport and lifting heavy.

Eh, I'm not *that* tiny for basketball.

I only play once a week so does this really still apply? I mean, Gorilla4Sale has trouble gaining weight I've noticed "in season" but he's an actual pro athlete and he's really really big so gains will be harder anyway.

Although I guess I am doing cardio things on non-lifting days and if anyone is playing I will basically play as much as possible. I may want to reorganize that to some degree or do it more judiciously.

In terms of athletic speed/quickness, how much I weigh still will play a role. I'm no Lebron James, if I gain 20 lbs I am pretty sure I'll lose speed and quickness to some degree. But maybe not, I'm not really sure where my cutoff would be. There's a reason there is only 1 Lebron James, no one else can get that strong/big and still play that fast in the world.

You're skinny Yugo. You're actually pretty strong for someone as thin as you are. You won't get much stronger without eating more protein.

G4S has trouble gaining weight and he eats ~2 lbs of meat PER MEAL. He has ~15% body fat.

Putting that in perspective, that's a little more than I eat in a day spread over 5 or 6 meals.

Have you eaten that much meat in the past week? Month? This year?

Whey protein - 2 scoops a day + a little meat or eggs with most of your meals wont make you fat, especially if you are working out like you are now. It will make you stronger.

you do cardio and basketball and lift weights and you are afraid of gaining weight? dude you should just eat as much as you can and you still wont be eating enough.

and yes, you are very small. i guess if you want to play in a coed rec league your size is okay, but if you want to play with men then you are just gonna get run over.

if you put on muscle it will make you faster, not slower. i dont know what else to say really. if you hold these superstituous thoughts on weight training, i'm not really sure why you are doing it in the first place.

I don't think you have to say anything more. I guess I'm coming off as not wanting to get bigger and stronger but that's not really what I'm thinking. It's more that I'm not ready to commit to that as any sort of quantifiable specific goal yet like I would have done immediately in the past or like I've seen a lot of people do over the course of my life.

I'm more concerned with giving myself the time to make changes and reprogram myself as necessary.

Also, I'm already likely eating more. I can't just not eat, lol, I get super hungry and then have to find more food!

You'll be fine imo.

You have to get over the fear of getting fat from eating when you're hungry now.






mmmmmmmmmmmmm protein!

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