Hmm, from looking at this, http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/#calories, it seems that my calorie maintenance is maybe ~2800 calories (176lbs x 16 as I workout a fair amount? I dno, maybe that multiplier is too high or low) and an increase of 10% would be ~3100/day.

Hmmmm. HRMMMMMM. Well, perhaps my analysis above isn't a very accurate snapshot of what I actually eat. B/c, there's no way I'm eating 800 calories under maintenance without being hungry as F.

Also, it seems I should try to shoot for 3100 calories/day with at least the same amount of protein I'm already trying to get?

Am I doing this right?

x15 is probably more accurate. Depends on how much cardiotarding you do. I use x14 and it works fine for me with lifting 3/week and no cardio.

Not eating at a surplus is certainly a good reason your lifts don't go up, even though you're likely right that your estimates are a bit off. There's also the problem that all protein is not created equal, but looks like you're getting enough from the protein powder anyway.

I'd still aim for around 3k cals, you're not very big.

In two weeks I'll be doing:

sunday: basketball game (I think we play 40 minutes, I don't play the whole time obv)
monday: basketball pickup games (2 hours period, I assume winner stays on or something)
tues: lifting (squat + bench)
thur: lifting (DL day - tons of lifting)
sat: lifting (squat + OHP)

So once this starts going perhaps I'll need to eat even more than 3k calories? Or at least a lot more on Sunday & Monday?

Lol @ me.

Okay so no wonder those numbers seem way low. I was counting 3 scoops of protein powder as 1 scoop worth of calories. Ugh.

So those #s are short 480 calories.

So it's more like 2500 calories, 220g protein. When I'm sticking to that type of meal plan and not eating out. That makes A LOT more sense imo. So it still seems I can eat a decent amount more each day and not worry too much about going out and eating a bit like a pig (although my meals out tend to just be somewhat junky with high fat/carbs).

3k cals or so on average is probably good enough. Adjust upwards if you're not gaining a bit of BW.

I started SS at 167 or something and am now 175 or 176. So I definitely have gained weight. I also cut out all cardio and went to the state fair a few weeks ago, lol.

Anyway, I'm willing to start upping my daily intake a bit here and there. Maybe two yogurts instead of 1 for starters imo. Maybe some nuts with it too.

Lol ya, eating under 2k calories with SS and b ball is a pretty bad idea. Yeah 3k is sweet and should be enough, the major factor would be how much ball you're playing, since high WIM ball burns a ton of calories

3K cals is ez imo.

Paging G4S - he probably eats that for breakfast.

Well Yugo's said he's not interested in putting on tons of weight, so gotta respect that. Will prob mean he'll need intermediate programming earlier tho.

Yeah it's cool to be big and strong and everything but all the extra weight can really make it tough to run fast (esp for a long time) and jump high. Fine line to balance, obv being really quick and strong at a low bf is great for b ball

Sure, but as we all know that takes a huge amount of time to accomplish. It's pretty ridiculous how much stronger the bigger guys get in a way shorter amount of time.

The hard part isn't 3k cals, the hard part is doing it without just going nutso and eating 10 lbs of fat a day.

Yeah, I'm rethinking how much weight I'm willing to gain though. I'd guess my frame can carry a lot more and I won't look weird and won't be slowed down too much. Just think of what a beast I could be at 200lbs of mainly muscle! That's a really big change though imo.

(too bad it takes a long time for that type of transformation)

Yeah, this is my main concern. Also, just the fact that I may not workout and be fit like this in the future. What if I gain a bunch of weight, start losing some of it, have a kid or something at that point and everything goes to ****? Perhaps I'm overestimating how difficult it is to maintain strength. But from a few logs here (like Miles) it seems v v easy to get way weaker after a layoff.

Yeah, I didn't realize how big of a difference maybe this makes. I assumed I could eat at just a bit of a surplus and still steadily make gains for a long time. I do realize that being willing to just gain 50 lbs, 60% of it fat would really accelerate everything, lol.

Yugo --

You're what, 6'0" ~180? Just for a point of reference, I'm only 4 inches taller than you (and don't really consider myself that big) and I weigh 220. I could probably diet down to 210 or something and get to a reasonable bf%, but it's not like I'm fat now or anything. I guess this is a roundabout way of saying yes, you can certainly put on more weight and not look "weird". Obv how much is up to you, but gaining another 10-20 pounds and then cutting fat during whatever basketball offseason time is appropriate/optimal for you would likely be fine wrt your hoop goals imo.

I'm a bit less still, more like 175 imo.

Brief history of weight (same height):
~150 beginning of college after being "chunky" through some of high school
~195 sophomore in college (tried to gain weight sophomore year to get stronger, mostly got a bit fat & swole, no SS ftl)
~180 after college (not too strong, but I felt like I looked good)
~225/230 at my "peak" (desk job + poker afterwards imo)
~160 2-3 years ago
~167 before SS a few months ago

175 now

My least happy time in terms of feeling good about myself was when I was 225/230, went to India, was super bloated from the heat and collapsed trying to play ~5 minutes of pickup bball with my friends. Just ridiculous. So I have some amount of hangups in terms of just "gaining weight". Also, I'm under the impression that keeping an extra 15 lbs of LBM over the years is much harder than just staying fairly skinny/strong.

Anyway, I am clearly stronger than I was at any other point in my life. A big part of my wishes I did SS instead of poker when I was eating way too much and getting fat. But I wouldn't have 234234234 cool poker friends who I now don't ever get to see. Meh.

What should my target weight be?

I'm a short 6' tall (likely more 1/8" or 1/10" short of 6' tbh) and ideally would play bball very physically and energetically. Not necessarily an enforcer type (Oakley) but somewhat of a bruiser, who bangs around indiscriminately and frustrates the other team with hustle/WIM.

If I really tried to target something like 200 lbs, even though I'd be much stronger, I'm a bit worried I'd just be immobile like Danny Fortson (remember him?), a monster rebounder but slothly on defense with no lateral movement whatsoever or ability to score without 10 feet of space all around.

Also, and I know this is just more whining. But, wearing clothes that are quite tight that I fit into just a few months ago is somewhat depressing. I can go get new clothes but paying that $ when I have cool ones I like probably brings back all the feelings of when I was 220 and stuffing my sausage legs into my pants for work b/c I was too lazy to get even bigger pants and admit I was actually fat.

(The other reason for this rant is I'm wearing pants that fit and looked really nice a year ago on me and they are too tight, don't fit perfectly anymore, and now I'm cranky b/c it's hard to sit in them all day. Lol)

I wish. Eating 3kcal meals all day would do me good.

Do it, do it!

Here's the thing, if you get too fat/slow/winded/whatever, then just go back to where you were. If you have the discipline to train and put on the weight, then you have the discipline to take it off. It's not difficult.

As someone who has done this, since being quick/explosive is vital with what I do, I can actually relate. I have always gained size with the knowledge that if I lost athleticism with it, then I would just go back to what I was. Funny thing is, I haven't.

So what if you keep all the current tools you have on the court now, and maybe even add some more, and are 25lbs heavier? Seems to me like that would help. Again, we know there's a point of diminishing returns, but I suspect it's not at 200lbs.

And ya, this stuff takes time. Years for it to be done right.

FYP

Im 5'9" and targeting 190 long-term, currently 175. Maybe too much reading of G4S's log (mmm porkchops), but there you go. I don't think this would be a detriment my soccer game much, and should improve some aspects of it. Ive already noticed my kicking length has improved, and I am much harder to shift off the ball and win more 50/50 challenges. I can't tell if im slower, but it doesnt feel like it.

Try to look at the positives a little more!

If you and Cha had your way, I'd have gained 60 lbs this summer, .

But, ultimately you're definitely right to a certain degree. However, while bball players have consistently gotten bigger and stronger recently, they still aren't nearly where you are, or most football players. I suspect they'll continue to get bigger to a degree and then essentially stop. I can't imagine many of them are giving up too much edge at this point by not being big and strong enough.

Of course, you're not recommending that I set a goal of 300lbs (at least I don't think!) so can't really argue your points even if I wanted to, .

Well, the negatives has been outweighing (ha!) the positives for a while in my mind. I'm strong enough for daily life imo. So I'd be getting big solely for bball, which is cool. But let's face it, it's not my #1 priority in life.

Just being strong seems kind of cool and when I was younger it seemed VERY cool (again, the young me would have done anything to know about SS and have a workout partner), but I mean, right now it just means I gotta buy more clothes and have a higher level of strength to maintain.

You could get really strong if you got up to 200 lbs. Using your strength in contact sports like basketball & softball (lol - I'll tell you about that sometime ) is fun.

I was kind of happy the other day when I bought a new pair of jeans - the Levi's 550s I had been wearing seemed a bit tight in the ass and upper legs, so I got 560s (looser fit) and they fit great

9/27 log

Lots of SMR
Mobility

Squat
45x5x2
80x5
120x3
160x2
200x5x3

No pussyfooting around with 185 or some **** today, son. Took it to the hole on 200s and will move up to 205 next time. My knees may be shakey but I don't give a F, gotta get them addductors tight, yo.

Bench
45x5x2
80x5
110x3
145x2
162.5x4
162.5x3
162.5x4

Very happy with my last set, but I really gotta start getting my bench & press to go up more consistently. I'm hoping feeding myself will help with that. I do understand that I'm concentrating on DL for the next several weeks but imo I should be able to make plenty of other gains too "by accident" as long as I push hard and take no prisoners.

I also have already eaten 2600-2900 calories today imo with 360 more on the way. Why the range? B/c who the F knows what's in the rice/tofu dish I just ate. Just concentrating on packin' it in.

My g/f did:

Squat
24x5x3
60x3
80x2
100x5x3

Bench
24x5x3
45x3
55x2
65x5x3

DL
45x5x2
65x3
90x2
110x5

I thought she might have had 2 more reps in her on DLs but she hadn't done them in two weeks so I had her back off 115 to 110 to build her confidence. She's gonna hit 115 and 120 hard in the next few sessions imo.

I've been toying with idea of gaining some weight myself. I'm like you...I don't have any aesthetic desire to look huge. I'm 5'10'' 175-180 and look fairly thin imo which is fine with me.

My recent thinking is this:
By doing millions of squats, I've already subjected to myself to having a "squat butt" in the name of basketball. If it will help your game, why not do a little 10-15 lb bulking cycle over the winter? Maybe it will even make my butt look a little more proportional to the rest of my body And, as g4s said, its easy enough to lose again if necessary.

Clothing costs though...don't have a good answer for that. All my clothes are getting a bit tight too...but I enjoy buying new clothes and probably would buy them anyway.

Yeah, we're in a similar situation. I'd wager most rec ball type players who discovered SS-type lifting in the last couple of years are in this situation in general. I mean, you either already knew about that in school way earlier and bulked up already, or now you realize you have the tools to do just that.

Anyway, my biggest concern is that even though I can rationalize by saying "well if I end up overweight or bigger than I want to be at some point I can just be dedicated and diet back down," the reality for the vast majority of Americans is they just end up fatter and fatter unless they've created appropriate habits. Eating 3k+ calories a day if I'm not dedicated to being very active is not a good long-term health habit imo, so I'm wary.

Personally I found that dieting was pretty easy after dedicating yourself to eating a bunch (I ate too much, 4k+ at too high BF) and doing SS. If you're used to doing some hard stuff, dieting is a breeze.

Must not be American, .

You've been here right?