Its probably not so much that the muscle got too strong for the tendon or the ligament attachments -- those have to grow in response to the demand - but its volume. They can take the weight, just not repeatedly, which is where the skillets help the muscles.

@ Cha59

I definitely believe it, don't get me wrong. Of all the people that use AAS, they are probably more likely to get injured than if they had not.

Buuutttt there's an important caveat - It depends on water retention and compounds being used. There's not a lot of evidence for deca "building up the tendons", but it does dampen inflammation in connective tissue from progestenic activity+water retention. So yeah, if you do that #yoloswag men's physique type of protocol where you're trying to look shredded all the time and taking lots of dht derived drugs+tren and retaining very little water, it seems more believable your AAS use is making you more predisposed to injury. If you're on that deca+test+anadrol+dbol bloofball water buffalo protocol, arguably less than if you'd not been taking AAS. Pretty much every single good bber ever reports that when they do get injured, it's rarely in their fat and watery offseasons but it's pre-contest, even though the weights they are often training less hard with the weights due to lower calories+cardio.

I think Cha is correctly assuming what cycling means in my context and being on high doses for a long time would be bad (i dont know about tendons) but for a host of reasons.

Abrahamovic,
Perhaps I read Evo's beginner cycle wrong and there is no need to come off after the feeler cycle which is mainly meant to see if there are any sides i might be prone to. Otherwise, there are always the internet-propogated cycled one could jump straight on but they seem to be discussed on forums with an actual science level of 10/100 and bro science level 90/100.

Will you be more specific on what constitutes the 'sucking' part in coming off gear?

I think 3 months of PED levels of test will do exactly that - enhance performance for the time period it's in your system. It's not some magic bullet you take and wake up swoller than yesterday.

I will have a endocrinologist on board the whole time fwiw.

Anyways, there is a lot of time to go and I made the post to pick up more advise and want any and all criticism that comes with it.

The context here is aas, where cycling has a well defined meaning. That is, using aas for a period then stopping. That stopping usually and should involve pct.

Ya you read what evo said wrong. Also you are gonna have to get used to bro science because for the most part its all there is. Not many studies out there on roids, and the ones that exist are burn victims and aids patients. but its important to find the correct bro science.

What sucks about coming off? You have no test in your system and lots of estrogen. Gyno, moody, no libido, depression, loss of gains. The recommended pct, ai+nolva+clomid , especially clomid, people say is absolutely terrible for your mind. Obviously you can do it if you have a good reason but its much better to stay on and blast and cruise like evo said.

I honestly would not put any weight in having an endo on board. Most of these guys dont know **** about steroids. And id wager that one in India would be less likely than most. I believe evo had a horrible experience trying to get trt/estrogen control help from his.

Again the most worrying thing is you saying you are 100% going to do a cycle and seemingly dont know the most basic ****

Nothing you wrote in that post is news to me. I didn;t mention PCT because this is not the time for me to be writing all the details of my cycle. Not only have I already looked up the PCT in detail, I am now going to read their entire history, from the day they were invented/formulated/discovered to everything since then. I love reading topics that interest me. I have been in contact with Evo and Syn so I can get past the steroid forum BS without having to delve into it.

If I was someone who wanted to do the cycle without knowing the most basic **** about it, I'd already be on it.

I honestly thought you had something to add that I might be looking over or oblivious to, but that's clearly not the case.

Yea Endo's suck but for instance if I need to get some MRIs of the Pituitary (sella/parasellar MRI or something like that?) the doc would be handy and for other reasons.

I dont know how much you know. If you already knew the answers to things you didn't mention or were asking questions about then fine, but how was I gonna know that?

The only thing I think is a bad idea is your stated 5 week trt cycle before coming off, and to a lesser extent cycling in general. If you are going to just merge them then your plan seems pretty good.

Since we may be on the same page, the next few things that I thought about:

You say you are kindof high bf%. Are you planning on cutting during the trt period? Doing that then continuing with the low test+epi cycle would probably mitigate the higher sides people get from wet compounds when at higher bf%. Then you could jump to 500 test when bf is low enough and start blowing up while still lean.

12 weeks is pretty short. Id rather do 20 lol. Obviously might want to limit epi to shorter 4-6 weeks runs depending on how much you drink, if you get bloods to check liver values, if you like it or want to try a different oral.

Finally why the f would u not want to be on during the summer? I would want my blast/cycle to be in summer to look good for all the babes at the pool/beach

waiting on KC to comment about all these badasse steroid experts.

Yea I defo need some clarification on his post. Yea high bf% right now and I am on a slow cut till december. Will be lifting during my October vacation in America as well and I am meeting a back specialist there also. We'll see where I am in January.

Summer and monsoon period in india is gash. 50 celcius, hot winds and lots of flu etc. The monsoons are the same. Sticky, dirty weather and I get sick every monsoon pretty much. All this coupled with having to work really drains your daily capacity to exercise.

12 weeks is just my starting goal but depending on how things are going I might do 16 weeks with a taper off during 17-19week or something. I don't know if tapering off matters. I am also leaning toward a test only cycle because orals are harder to come by here (in cycle quantity) whereas test is pretty easily available and I could pick up 50 250mg amps in about an hour from now if I so wished.

I don't understand why having your daily capacity to exercise is a reason to use clomid instead of continuing trt.


Actually just general advice to everyone: Quit being a phaggot and going in with the plan of only using AAS temporarily. Trt 4 lyfe. Literally. Maybe you'll have some health complications and have to go off. But probably not. At least don't ****ing enter it planning to do it for x/weeks then I'm totally done bro.

TRT for life for me, but I'm 50 years old. If you're younger and plan on having kids, do your research.

this is my first time opening the thread. I have nothing to offer. people should do whatever they want.

I suspect SS will be profoundly disappointed. unsubscribing now. maybe from HF completely.

Guys, dream is over. No Vitamin T for this guy.

After speaking to a few people, I have decided it's not for me. I was under the impression that one maybe two short cycles of AAS would get me to a decent physique so I could cruise mode it rest of my life but turns out I'd be facing tons of sides and post cycle shenanigans for what would be 3-4lb of lbm. I knew this stuff wasn's some magic bullet but had a very overestimated version in my mind.

I simply don't want to do AAS for prolonged periods, at least not for another 10 or so years.

I should thank Evoken for all the info he dished out for me. I would probably have already bought the gear and maybe even started sooner than I intended to were it not for him. I bet there are a lot of people who lurk steroid forums and gain superficial, usually partially correct low quality information who would gain a lot from a talk or two with brother Evo.

Basically, I got a lot of things cleared up for me that I might not have gotten cleared in time before I gave in and started jabbing.

Edit: one of the driving forces behind me wanting to do it was the fact I lost basically a year to injury and wanted maximum efficiency coming out of an injury when I started workint out at 100%.

Just laying my thought process out there.

Two short cycles of AAS can help get you to a decent physique more efficiently. They can not just take you there just because you are taking it. I don't know what kind of image you have in your head, but KC is probably right that you might get easily disappointed. More so since you were thinking about doing very conservative dosages.

What you were thinking of taking would probably have very very little side effects and almost no post cycle shenanigans, imo


It's all about having the right expectations. Your muscles are not going to explode and your fat is not going to shred off just because your hormones are enhanced with 500mg of test and an oral. They will just make all your effort more rewarding.

It IS a magic bullet. But you still need a gun and finger to pull the trigger and aim in the general direction.

Most people who buy the magic bullet and don't realize those other things are needed end up getting disappointed when they throw it down a hallway and all it does is flesh wound their target and it heals up relatively quickly when they stop throwing magic bullets at it.

SS why don't you just go on for life?

what would the dose be?

I can find a doctor ready to be on call if I do short term PED dosage cycles but no endocrinologist I've met (so far) has heard of TRT (or at least they deflected questions regarding it).

I'd have to find a doctor if it's for life imo. Secondly, I have not yet done any research on the history of testosterone (legality wise) in India. I am sure it's gone through banned phases. Don't know what the future holds but drugs can get easily banned/very regulated in India.

Currently I can find amps of T on every corner.

fwiw, my dose is .35 ml (I think that's 70 mg) twice a week, but I take an estrogen blocker and something to suppress DHT, and all kinds of things in my blood are looked at and my meds are adjusted (although the T has remained at this dose) twice a year by my doc, so its not quite as simple as "take this".

140mg a week Cha? Wat.

You are not an ant my man, up da dose. 2000 powerlifting total, 2000 ng/dl 4LYFE!!

Definitely true. And everyone's body is different. If you want to do it on your own, prepare for a lot of trial and error and trying to figure out what works for you. Fortunately you can get bloodwork to guide the process.

Any simple ways (short of taking steroids then quitting w/o PCT) to temporarily crash T levels before testing so insurance will pick up the tab for TRT? Hoping for something like changing diet, maybe watching sad movies.


Asking for a friend.

Reading Soulman's log should do the trick.

Just brainstorming here but maybe staying up 24 hours (or systematically depriving yourself of sleep for a week) before getting tested in the afternoon, some time after stuffing yourself with a quadruple bypass burger and 2L of coke might have an influence?

They want testing first thing in the morning because that's when T levels are highest, so waking up at 3am should fubar the internal clock. Or maybe pulling an all nighter would be better.

Oddly, have found studies that say drinking Spearmint Tea and eating real Licorice reduce levels in women suffering from excessive T leading to hirsuteness.