True. But the site is crawled and cached by Google.

If its already OK then OK!

****Doing your first cycle****

Step 1: Don't jump right into a formal "cycle". Start with TRT or barely over TRT doses. You want to see how your body reacts and find out which side effects you're susceptible to and which ones you aren't. Some people are prone to hair thinning, some are really prone to acne, some to gyno, some to water retention, and some to libido problems. You'll probably notice at least one of these even if it's not that pronounced or severe and even at such a low dose. Experiment with different AIs and ancillaries in this stage; some people respond better to arimidex and some better to aromasin. Letro is a bad idea though at this stage anyway. Stay at these doses for 6-8 weeks and feel it out. You basically need to figure out what sides you're prone to and how to most effectively combat them and doing it at a very low dose of test makes the process easy. If for whatever reason you decide this isn't for you, you can just quit and come off without needing any pct protocol since you started with such a low dose.

Step 2: Add in some other non-aromatizing compound or one that aromatizes less than testosterone. This could be anything from a non aromatizing oral like winstrol, anavar, superdrol, turinabol, or epistane. You could also use an additional injectable which could be masteron, trenbolone, equipoise, or nandrolone. In the case of mast/tren/nandrolone, stick to the short estered versions. Masteron Enanthate is a unicorn and really often faked even though the short estered version is not, but the main reason we want to use short estered versions is because this is our first exposure to the compound and we want to be able to take it out easily if there are some severe or intolerable sides. If we use the long estered ones, those sides might last for another 3 weeks after discontinuing, but with short esters it might be 5-8 days. Add compounds in 1 at a time and give it another good 6-8 weeks before adding anything else. You probably shouldn't use any more than 3+a low dose oral. Start at the lowest effective doses; for something like trenbolone acetate or masteron propionate this would be around 175-250/wk. EQ 400/wk, NPP 300/wk.

Step 3) Increase the dose of your non testosterone compound(s) gradually. Use discretion and don't be a moron. At this point your testosterone is somewhere between 125-250 only still. Around week 20-24, it's probably advisable to either take a break and go back to low dose test only for a month+ or start PCT (plz don't do the 2nd one though).

So why not 500mg/wk testosterone for 10 weeks right off the bat for your first cycle followed by 4 weeks nolva+clomid? That's what eevverryyyone on the internet says and and they're smarter than you **** you!!!1!!

Balancing estrogen is really difficult. There's a fine line and you have to know your body and how it responds to ancillaries and testosterone at various doses before you try running higher test cycles. It's different for everyone so you can't go based on guidelines from the internet. There is such a thing as pushing estrogen too low, and the side effects are even worse than it being too high. If it's too high, your erections are softer but you still have sex drive, you put on a lot of water, you're more prone to acne, you might have mood problems, and you're more prone to fat gain in a surplus. If it's too low, your joints hurt from dryness, your erections and libido no longer exist, you will certainly have mood problems, you will be weaker in the weight room, but you will at least look pretty shredded!! There's nothing inherently "wrong" with higher testosterone cycles; testosterone is the most cost effective compound around. The problem is, people have drastically undersold the side effects of testosterone while drastically overstating the side effects of 19-nors, non aromatizing orals, and DHT based drugs. It's wiser to wait until you know your body really well before experimenting with higher testosterone cycles instead of jumping in right away. Stacking compounds isn't just for synergistic effect or to circumvent diminishing marginal returns; it's because a high amount of total AAS split intelligently between different compounds usually means much less side effects than the same amount of just one compound.


Testosterone+masteron+trenbolone is such a popular combo because of this; you get way less side effects splitting between the three than using one only at a higher dose. Even though 2 of these compounds are "exotic" this is honestly a really good combo to start with provided you add everything in one by one; solid gains with very little water retention and even a mild diuretic effect and nearly everyone on this combo reports enhanced libido.

It's a much better plan to use just enough testosterone to maintain sexual function and use other compounds as your main strength and muscle builders. There was a pervasive myth that one needed to run x amount of testosterone for every y amount of a 19-nor compound or EQ. In the last few years people are realizing this is basically bull**** and you pretty much need 125-300/wk depending on the person and you can run pretty high doses of 19-nors and maintain sex drive. Funnily enough, lots of people report BETTER sex drive with lower testosterone in the case of trenbolone. This seems to be less the case with nandrolones where you do need a slightly higher amount of test in relation to nandrolone to maintain erectile health. In any case, however, often you can fix libido problems through masteron rather than testosterone, which is not as effective at building mass or strength, but comes with way less side effects than testosterone and tends to mitigate side effects from other compounds due to it's mild anti-estrogen properties.

People are strangely terrified of trenbolone, but balancing prolactin is very easy. You just nuke it down as low as possible. There are no medical problems associated with prolactin being too low unless you happen to be breastfeeding at the time. Probably the main reason people are a little bit scared of trenbolone is that it used to be difficult to find cabergoline or prami. Pharmacy cabergoline is kind of expensive, and it doesn't work in liquid form even though a few research chemicals sites sell it. Liquid prami works great and you can get it from a research chemicals sites for $30 for like ~90 doses. You're super unlikely to have any prolactin problems with trenbolone at doses below 500-700 mg/wk, but it's certainly nice to have on hand and there will be a minority who will have prolactin side effects from even 350mg/wk.

solid post evo I did notice that my sex drive sucked on 350 test and the other compounds though so for me in the future I will always run more test than tren mast but thats not the case with everyone of course you just gotta experiment

Very informative post. Thank you. Quick question, if it's a much better idea to run "just enough" test at like 125-300mg per week, why are you still running it at a much higher dose?

Yeah it's really good. I'll have to look up a lot of the things you mention.

My only issue with the writeup(not that I'm capable of discerning a ton) is that it is clearly written by someone who knows a lot to someone who knows a bit. It's written for a novice, not a noob.

for example in the very first reference of Letro (letrozole) you say "Letro is a bad idea though" which is a little murky.

Overall obviously v good, I'm interested to hear what you recommend for a lifetime cycle for someone who isn't some old dad just looking to feel like he's 40 again though

Relevant to interests in general, as usual with ergo-log highlighting a small study of 30 men with HIV and their response to 'steroids' with some weight training and others not.

The notable things are that the muscle mass was not nearly as big of a difference as pure strength.

http://www.ergo-log.com/600mgdeca.html

Much better idea *for your first cycle*. Although some people take the low test approach literally forever and just never go beyond that and raise the doses of everything else as they progress.

Yeah I hope they know a bit before they take the plunge.

Going to present the other side today:

This is about the mechanisms by which mood/behavioral changes in AAS users happen. It's not strictly related to testosterone/estrogen/prolactin levels and then those hormones acting on brain chemistry. The AAS themselves independent of estro/prolactin are having effects on various parts of the brain, neurotransmitters, and brain chemistry. No matter how well you manage ancillaries, you can't prevent this.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...ndreas-martin/

Cliffs: "Roid rage" can be a thing. It can also manifest with just disinhibition/increased confidence. 19-nor derived AAS are more likely to cause aggression than others, and trenbolone is more known for this than nandrolone due to the fact that, while both increase mesolimbic activity, nandrolone offsets this with estrogenic activity in the ventro medial hypothalamus.

Nandrolones can have a positive impact on short term memory in cases where serotonin receptors have been rewired and permanently downregulated (through long term SSRI use or having too much fun raving when you were a teenager or a creepy old guy trying to get underage pussy at a rave).

There are some potential procognitive effects for those with neuro-degenerative diseases when combined with other medicines, but this part is really speculative.


Seems like there's not a lot of great info on AAS in endocrinology journals, but there is a surprising amount in neuroscience publications. It is definitely a lot more scary playing with substances that can measurably alter the chemistry of your actual brain rather than just strictly your endocrine system. Yeah yeah yeah I know the two are linked blah blah blah. On the other hand, alcohol marijuana benadryl etc etc.

Pete Rubish put out a couple videos like a year ago where he talks about his stack and how one specific thing he was using would turn him into a reactionary dickhead who wanted to rip peoples heads off. It was just the one thing though, but it gave him the best 'gainz' apparently.

I'm real helpful and useful here as usual, but if anyone is curious go hunt for his YouTubes.

he basically said if you are in a happy relationship you should not take tren

People rightfully want to dissuade newcomers from doing oral only cycles. You will make gains, but most orals aren't good as androgen replacement for sex drive/mood like testosterone is, yet they shut down testosterone production. But at some point on the internet people developed this crazy mythology about how awful orals were for one's liver and kidneys to dissuaded people from using them entirely and paint them as being less safe than injectable steroids. This is just straight up not true. Anadrol is supposedly among the most toxic, beat out by superdrol, halotestin, methyl-tren, and cheque drops only. But looks at this!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8785183

from the full text:

"There were no
significant alterations in coagulation profiles (prothrombin time, partial thromboplastin
time), complete blood counts or renal and liver function tests that were related to
treatment. "

Most people will parrot some bull**** that 100mg anadrol/day is "high" and shouldn't be run for more than 4-6 weeks before a break, or they bull**** you about needing liver support supplements like milk thistle or TUDCA (both of which are scams).

And here is is being used for it's prescribed purpose for AIDs patients experiencing wasting at 150mg/day for SEVEN MONTHS without any liver or kidney harm.

yea this is true i used orals for 6 months straight and had no negetive sides on liver and kidney function, I think a lot of bodybuilders overestimate the side effects so they feel more hardcore taking them, I took tren, test, mast provirion, nolva, arimidex, halotestin, anavar, and winny all at the same time and had exactly 0 changes in mood or any negetive side effects at all

I'll be your untrained guinea pig for experimentation next year (Jan). I am almost 100% going to do a cycle for performance enhancement. First with the trt dose test for 5-6 weeks, then a couple month break (sufficient?) before either 500mg/wk test only or 250mg test + 45mg Epistane, for 12 weeks.

All depends on whether or not my back is fully fit and how the feeler trt cycle goes.

Aim would be strength and aesthetics gain so programming will incorporate both compounds and lots of volume on accessory stuff. Definitely not gonna be focusing on things like bb curls and iso calf work type stuff.

Most of the forum will probably think this is a very bad idea at my training level but I do have some justification regarding time and resources that I will expand on closer to when I am about to dive in.

If I miss the Jan-Feb deadline to start for any reason, I will then have to start in September-October 2016 because I ain't gonna do no cycle during the summer & monsoon sick ass weather in India.

Lol that would be dumb for a variety of reasons other than how well trained you are

correcthorse.gif*

*depending upon the expansion of those variety of reasons

To each his own. There are positives and negatives.

To be specific I am pro aas but

1 lolcycling
2 SuperMegaLol at your planned idea of trt then jumping back off. If you want to try out trt dose then do it, probably a good idea actually, but there is absolutely no reason to stop before starting your cycle/blast. Shutting yourself down and doing pct is supposedly woat
3 saying (sufficient?), whatever that last paragraph means, and your previous posting is worrying to me about where you're getting your info

There are other things but this is a start

Syndrom goes on and off. Looks at his Lifts. 'Nuff said.

lolcycling? why lol?

I understand if you're on a low dose why there's no need to cycle, but if you're taking enough to enhance performance, to my knowledge at least, cycling is much safer for tendons and ligaments because otherwise your muscles get too strong for the tendons and ligaments to handle. That's when tendon and ligament injuries happen. There might be other reasons for cycling as well, but I'm not knowledgeable about them.

Isn't one of the reasons that if you don't let your bodies hormonal production take over and ramp back up to its normal levels it eventually gives out significantly and you become a perma-user? something like that I thought.

Nuclear,
I don't think there's any evidence to that being true.

Basically, coming off of gear really sucks. However cha is right, you may need or want some time off from using high doses for health/mental health/monetary reasons/whatever. Thus the best strategy is to use trt/low doses for a period of time to let your body recover.

Thus lolcycling. The reason ss has such an extra bad plan is he is gonna get the downside of shutting down his T and coming off gear without any of the upside of substantial performance enhancement.

I think bolded is broscience to the extreme, but so is the opposite position where guys claim eq/deca/primo "build" joints and tendons. NFI though, we're not going to see a particularly robust human study on AAS use and injury rates ever, and if everything was self reported it'd be meaningless because it depends on compounds/goals/training program/presence of GH. There was some crap about collagen synthesis in rats, but lol c'mon.


Your definition of cycling is not what Abrahamovic is talking about. Cycling means going off completely and taking nolva/clomid/HCG/whatever to re-initiate natural production. What I hope you're talking about it returning to lower doses (which could mean trt or "just a gram of test", depending on the user) that aren't for performance enhancement just to maintain some of the gains made while taking high doses and preserve all the body/mind functions testosterone is responsible for before returning to performance enhancing doses later. This is a good idea because it can give you a break from harsher compounds you're getting side effects from, ease up on the liver/kidneys if it's a problem, let blood pressure get back into a healthy range, etc. This is "blasting and cruising".

Nobody really knows dick about androgen receptor sensitivity or "burnout", but some users suggest that going off certain compounds and dropping to lower doses makes the compounds work better when they do eventually go back to performance enhancing doses. Again, I'm just regurgitating on this one, not enough personal experience and no legit studies on this.

Hahaha amazing.

I dont know of any studies, but I know of a lot of people who this happened to, and I know people who know a lot about what these people were taking/doing before they got injured.