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04-27-2011 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunnee
Your detailing during the transformation is quite impressive. I wish I had more clients as committed.
Thanks.

Recording everything has been helpful to me for compliance and for evaluating what works and what does not. I often plot out the entire day in advance, which I found helps a lot as well.

Quote:
I'd recommend you don't make such a drastic caloric change though. Adding 25% more calories will cause fat storage initially. You can, however, train your metabolism to change. You may consider going up to 2,100 calories for 1-2 weeks and gradually increasing from there.
Yesterday's 2,500 kcal day was a carb-up, to be followed by a lower-carb day tomorrow, but I was hoping to get to 2,500 on average in a week or two. However, I do think you are correct here, so I'll take it a bit slower. Thanks.

Quote:
I weigh 206lb and maintain my body composition with 3,700kcal/day, and it's not difficult to calculate. Trial and error is ok, but you may as well get the answer if it's available.
I used to be around that as well. I suspect my current number will be lower, but I'll ramp up gradually and find the sweet spot.
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04-27-2011 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59
My story is a little similar, but not nearly as impressive as yours. I was pretty strong 15 years ago, good at benching, decent at DLs and was relatively bad at squats. I had shoulder surgery, then got fat & lazy & hurt all over for a long time. A little less than 2 years ago I started working out again, lost weight, took care of a lot of nagging aches & pains with mobility & soft tissue work, then got fairly strong. My bench is not quite back to where it was, my DL is a little better, and my squat is a lot better than ever.
That's an impressive story. Congrats on the great comeback!

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I havent seen you say much about soft tissue or mobility work. Have you ever had ART or Graston done? How about deep tissue massage? Do you roll with a foam roller, pvc pipe or lacrosse ball? All that stuff helped me go from being a borderline cripple to where I am now.
I rehabbed after all three incidents, which was very helpful. Aside from a lacrosse ball, rehab included all you listed here.

About the only thing I found to be an issue after that was tight hip flexors that caused a slight anterior pelvic tilt. I corrected that with stretching. One stretch requires getting into a lunge position and rotating the pelvis forward. Another requires laying on one's back, knees bent and feet on the floor, and rotating the pelvis forward while keeping the glutes relaxed (to keep the abs doing much of the work). Both were great aids. I recommend these stretches to everyone -- even those with no apparent pelvic tilt.

I have full mobility all around, so I'm grateful for that. Thanks. The remaining issue are what they are, but I believe continued training will help mitigate them.
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04-27-2011 , 08:44 PM
4/27/2011:

Bench press: 45 X 10, 135 X 10, 185 X 10, 215 X 6, 215 X 7, 215 X 8, 225 X 2*

* partial left pec tear on third rep
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04-27-2011 , 08:49 PM
I am not familiar with pec tears. Is that a "oh ****, I need surgery" injury or a "put some ice on it, will be fine in a couple days" injury.
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04-27-2011 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdock99
I am not familiar with pec tears. Is that a "oh ****, I need surgery" injury or a "put some ice on it, will be fine in a couple days" injury.
Rough day today. It figures this would happen within only 72 hours of hitting my target weight. OTOH, at least it held up until I hit my target weight.

On the plus side, I felt it coming so I at least stopped it from being worse. Instead of surgery, I now just have to take it a bit easy for a couple of weeks. Scary knowing that the difference between the two outcomes was mere seconds.

Aside from perhaps some occasional 135 lb reps, I'm done with benching. I'm looking forward to close-grip benching, overhead presses, and other such training.
TE's training log Quote
04-27-2011 , 10:41 PM
ouch! Hope that heals up for you soon.

re- anterior pelvic tilt - I had that too. Mike Robertson noticed it when I hired him to write some programs for me. The soft tissue & mobility stuff he had me doing, along with ART about every other week, corrected mine. I only do one stretching exercise regularly - its a quad stretch from sort of a lunge position with my back knee on a pad and my back foot elevated on a chair. It sounds a bit similar to what you did. I do a lot of other mobility stuff in addition to that.
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04-27-2011 , 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59
ouch! Hope that heals up for you soon.
Thanks. Now that I've been home for a bit and had a chance to relax, I took a good look at it. It's not bruised and the pec moves when I move my arm, so it seems like it will be okay. Contrast that to a full rupture, where it's black-and-blue from the bottom of the pec up to the shoulder and halfway up the inside part of the upper arm, and the pec just stays flexed against the sternum when moving one's arm. So, I think I dodged a bullet.

Quote:
re- anterior pelvic tilt - I had that too. Mike Robertson noticed it when I hired him to write some programs for me. The soft tissue & mobility stuff he had me doing, along with ART about every other week, corrected mine. I only do one stretching exercise regularly - its a quad stretch from sort of a lunge position with my back knee on a pad and my back foot elevated on a chair. It sounds a bit similar to what you did. I do a lot of other mobility stuff in addition to that.
That sounds like a good way to take care of it. I'm glad you received good treatment.

I see plenty of people with it who are probably oblivious to the cause or even to the fact that they have it.
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04-27-2011 , 11:59 PM
That's good to hear it doesn't seem serious.

Yes - I didn't know I had APT until Mike told me. I think very few people have any idea what it is. Now that it has been corrected, life is much better.
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04-28-2011 , 02:29 AM
I have APT bad. Could you link to the examples of the stretches that you did for it?
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04-28-2011 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel45
I have APT bad. Could you link to the examples of the stretches that you did for it?
I tried maybe ten different stretches and found three to be most effective for me...the three in the video at http://www.lanimuelrath.com/workoutr...lk-part-4-of-5.
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04-28-2011 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59
That's good to hear it doesn't seem serious.

Yes - I didn't know I had APT until Mike told me. I think very few people have any idea what it is. Now that it has been corrected, life is much better.
Thanks. You can probably imagine my thoughts the moment it happened, so it's certainly a relief that it seems it will heal on its own.
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04-28-2011 , 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman
lol, you really believe it's possible to calculate exactly how many cals would be his maintenance? If so, congrats - you're the first in the world to develop such a powerful tool. And besides, you must have missed this post from TE:



Which is probably the best approach possible.

It would also be rather fun to see you quantify how diet types affect metabolism. Please including detailed specifications on how to differentiate between different diet types and how to account for compliance issues.
basal metabolic rate and thermal effect of food is calculated and researched from, "Understanding Nutrition, 12 ed." by Whitney/Rolfes. You can also find the difference in digestive rates and consumption between fat/carbs there too. Calculation of physical activity comes from The American journal of Epidemiology. 30:10-15, 1983.

No offense dude, but this is beginner nutrition stuff and simple physiology. Stuff that you think I'm the first person ever to do has been done for over 50 years.

cliff notes from research above: A high fat diet is defined as higher than 40% of your total intake. From the research, we know that fat and protein take much longer to break down than carbohydrates do. I can't quantify it much simpler than that.
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04-28-2011 , 08:38 AM
Of course the factors you refer to are known. Now, please lay out how you could calculate TE's cal intake in a more useful way than the approach he himself suggested. And of course, as you know:
- Everyone follows their diet perfectly
- There is no individual variance

PS: Lyle's calculator involves inputting your gender, height, weight, activity level and BF if known.

ETA: oh noes, you're a low carb tard, aren't you?
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04-28-2011 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman
Of course the factors you refer to are known. Now, please lay out how you could calculate TE's cal intake in a more useful way than the approach he himself suggested. And of course, as you know:
- Everyone follows their diet perfectly
- There is no individual variance

PS: Lyle's calculator involves inputting your gender, height, weight, activity level and BF if known.

ETA: oh noes, you're a low carb tard, aren't you?
Your posts are a bit confusing. When I said I was not an outlier and that your suggestion of "14-15kcal/lb BW" was too general, you said it wasn't pertinent to the log, but then when I said it was pertinent with citations, now you say of course those pertinent factors are known...but not relevant? So I don't get it. You disagree but then agree and skip around saying my claims are outlandish because I didn't agree with you. I feel like you, for whatever reason, just want me to be wrong because I specified your general claim as too general to be accurate. If you disagree that's fine. Show me the science...

BMR for males is (weight in lb) x 12, females (weight in lb) x 11

TEF: BMR x .1 (if high carb diet), or BMR x .05 (if high fat diet)

PA: BMR x .25 for sedentary individuals, .5 for moderate intensity exercising (3-7 hours/week), .75 for more than 7 hours of intense weekly exercise. Exactly what number to use is based on clinician experience and client reporting.

BF: add BMR + TEF + PA to get TEE. This assumes a fit male (18% bf), or fit female (22% bf). If, for example, TheEngineer is 25% bf, he would multiply TEE x .93 (25-18 = 7), being that someone with higher bf burns fewer calories than a fitter person. If someone were say 15% bf, you would do TEE x 1.03 (18-15). That gets an accurate measurement of TEE. Sorry if my calculations look odd, it works easier in my head.

I'm guessing a lot of posters here will do the calculation and say, "holy **** this can't be right. It says I need so many more calories than I eat." Sorry, it's right. It's been efficated many times over and usually the first hurdle I deal with for clients. A lot people burn amino acids for energy and don't understand why they can't get leaner. The vast majority of the time it's because your metabolism has slowed to the point of protein sparing and that was why I made the suggestion to increase total calories very slowly. Your metabolism can be trained, but not very quickly.

Also, sorry. I have no idea what a low-carb tard is. Are you suggesting I eat too many carbs or too few?
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04-28-2011 , 01:42 PM
Let's take this to PM (or another thread) if you want to discuss it further. I don't want to tard up TE's log anymore, so I won't respond here.
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04-28-2011 , 02:01 PM
you're right Soulman, sorry for clogging your log thread TE.
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04-28-2011 , 03:49 PM
multiplying weight in lb by 12 results in a BMR way higher than either harris benedict or mifflin st. joer would give.

harris benedict gives me about 2300, st joer about 2100.

BMR according to you is 2940. since every other factor in your equation (where is this from btw? i never see it actually cited) depends on BMR, of course the TEE ends up very high.
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04-28-2011 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59

I think very few people have any idea what it is. Now that it has been corrected, life is much better.
APT isn't all that bad. It really helps bring out the ass.
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04-28-2011 , 04:56 PM
Milesdyson,

Look a few posts up where I mention where the numbers come from.
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04-28-2011 , 07:35 PM
found a few examples of the page. skimmed very quickly but it looks like they use a more elaborate method that accounts for age and height along with weight. 24kCal/kg/day is mentioned in a sidebar, and that is less than 11 per pound. may not seem like much different, but because the BMR gets multiplied by other factors, it ends up quite significant in the end.

Quote:
I'm guessing a lot of posters here will do the calculation and say, "holy **** this can't be right. It says I need so many more calories than I eat." Sorry, it's right.
TE's training log Quote
04-29-2011 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman
Let's take this to PM (or another thread) if you want to discuss it further. I don't want to tard up TE's log anymore, so I won't respond here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunnee
you're right Soulman, sorry for clogging your log thread TE.
No apologies necessary. It's actually an interesting discussion and I thank you both for putting the thought into my plan.

For the record, I'm taking both sides. I suspect I'll not find 3700 kcal/day to be a maintenance caloric intake, but as I'd love to get to enjoy 3700 kcal/day, I'm rooting for Dmunnee!
TE's training log Quote
04-29-2011 , 01:21 PM
4/28/2011:

Bent-over row: 45 X 2*
DL: 45 X 2*
* evaluating need for a "bro" leg day (Bro leg training: leg press, hack squat machine, leg extensions, and leg curls) to work around pec issue
Elliptical machine: 1:02:11 at 20/10 - 20/8 interval, 130 strides/minute, 800 kcal expenditure total (per machine readout)

==============================

Maintenance to date (two up, one down carb/caloric cycle):

28-Apr27-Apr 26-Apr Average
Cals 1,285 2,639 2,432 2,119
Fat (g) 37.1 81.1 56.5 58
Carbs (g) 32.0 272.5 266.6 190
Prot (g) 189.6 192.1 197.4 193

Weight unchanged. Core feels improved:



Last edited by Rich Muny; 04-29-2011 at 01:28 PM.
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04-29-2011 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman
3700 kcals is really high, so I have to assume you're cardiotarding a loooot.
Just a random observation.....I've noticed that interest in cardio conditioning tends to be directly proportional to one's age.
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04-29-2011 , 02:56 PM
fwiw, I'm older than almost everyone in this forum and I hate cardio.
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04-29-2011 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha59
fwiw, I'm older than almost everyone in this forum and I hate cardio.
I hate doing cardio.
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