The Asp-trix:

I agree that all of this is a reasonable way of thinking about things. I'd be pretty sweet if we could get a ****load more data and try to build a quantitative model.

Yesterday:

MrWookie: 3076 food calories, -452 biking calories, 170 g protein
MrsWookie: 1869 food calories (I think she's estimating some stuff low, here), 89 g protein

Today:

Lifting day!

I tried a new gym today, one cheaper and closer to home. Despite the assurances that they had a "power rack," after paying and entering, it looks like their "power rack" was some sort of pull up contraption, and there was no acceptable setup for squats. All they had was a leg press machine. lol, guess I won't be going back.

Leg press lol:
"the stack"x5x3, which actually was a decent challenge, but lol

They did have a proper bench press and bar, but there was no way to appropriately rack it for squats, certainly not for weights I wanted to squat.

Bench press:
45x5x2
65x5
95x3
125x2
135x5x3

Achievement unlocked: bench pressing actual plates finally

Deadlift:
155x3
225x2
260x5

MrsWookie wimped out and did no lifting because she was "tired."

Bottom Line:

MrWookie: 3244 food calories (had too much chicken for lunch, oh well), -339 biking calories, -??? lifting calories, 291 g protein
MrsWookie: 1867 food calories, -ZERO lifting calories, 88 g protein

Yesterday:

MrWookie: 3083 food calories, -603 biking calories, 19 g protein.
MrsWookie coming tomorrow.

Lifting day!

MrWookie:

Squats:
45x5x2
85x5
125x5
175x5
215x5x3

Achievement unlocked: squatting in excess of body weight

Press:
45x5
60x3
75x2
90x4
90x2x2

Defeated here. We'll try again next week.

Deadlift:
155x3
225x2
265x5

Success.

MrsWookie lifted, but she's asleep.

Bottom line:
MrWookie: 3601 food calories, -578 biking calories, -??? lifting calories, 299 g protein

Noob question: how does resetting work? I thought if you fail, you unload a bit and get back to where you were at after a few more workouts.

Congrats on the squat milestone!

Nick, standard reset is 10-15% after three failed workouts in a row. Might be worth picking up some 1 1/4 plates so you can make smaller jumps on press and later bench press, MrW. Also useful for the MrsW.

Yeah, I've thought about it. For the time being, when I've failed an exercise one week, I've succeeded then next, resulting in relative indifference, at least in my relatively naive estimation, between taking 2 sessions for a 5 lb increase to click, or making two successful 2.5 lb increases. Always making progress is good, though.

Saturday:

MrsWookie: 2137 food calories, 128 g protein

Sunday, lifting day.

MrsWookie:

Goblet Squats:
15x5
30x3
45x3

Achievement unlocked! Proper barbell squats! MrsWookie is now electing to focus on barbell back squats. She's doing them with a very wide grip and with the bar too high on her traps, and she's not getting low enough, but we're kinda thinking it's worth trying to progress here and work on improving form rather than with the goblet squats, where the dumbbells are getting too hard to handle. Her sprained ankle is still bothering her, but we'll keep working.

45x3
55x5x3

A step down in weight, but we'll keep working on form, flexibility, and weight progression.

Press:
20x5
30x3
45x3
55x3x3

She couldn't progress here.

Romanian Deadlift:
50x5
95x3
110x2

Deadlift:
145x5

We forgot her last DL was 145. She should have done 150 this time. Oops.

Bottom line Sunday:
MrsWookie: 2046 food calories, -215 run/walk calories, 174 g protein

Bottom line today:
MrWookie: 2866 food calories, -729 bike/walk calories, 171 g protein
MrsWookie: 1815 food calories, 133 g protein

Tuesday:

MrWiookie: 2793 food calories, -723 biking calories, 174 g protein
MrsWookie: 1563 food calories, 92 g protein

Lifting day!

MrWookie:

Squats:
45x5x2
85x5
135x3
175x2
220x5x3

Achievement unlocked: I have squatted the Tower of Hanoi. Unfortunately, after this, I was really, really tired.

Bench press:
45x5x2
70x5
95x3
125x2
140x5x2
140x4

I failed on my last rep. As I was trying to do these, I kept feeling like my whole ass was on the brink of cramping up on me whenever I would fully tighten up my back and get my feet in a relatively proper position. Consequently, my technique was poor, and I probably overly-exhausted myself, leading to the failure on the last rep.

Deadlift:
155x3
225x2
270x0

I completely failed here. I couldn't even get it off the floor. I was totally exhausted.

225x1 Just to get it back in the rack to make putting away the plates easier.

MrsWookie:

Goblet Squats:
20x5
30x3
40x3

Squats:
45x3
55x3
60x5x3

Progress. She was getting lower here, but her ankle is still bothering her. She's going to talk to her doctor about it.

dumbbell bench press:
15(each)x5

bench press
45x3
60x3
70x5
70x4
70x5

She blew it on the middle set, but after completing the last one, she's probably just going to try 75 next time.

Romanian deadlift:
60x5
90x3
125x2

Deadlift:
150x5

Progress.

Bottom line:
MrWookie: 3025 food calories, -345 biking calories, -??? lifting calories, 179 g protein
MrsWookie: 2052 food calories, -209 run/walk calories, -??? lifting calories, 106 g protein

My protein has been a little lower the last few days. Maybe that was my trouble.

So, it's been a while. I haven't stopped logging or lifting, but I've gotten behind updating everything here. That's coming. But, long story short, I may have found the wall everyone said was coming. I've now twice failed to squat 225x5x3, to bench press 140x5x3, and to press 90x5x3. I did succeed to deadlift 270x5x1 after failing once, but I failed to do 275x5 today.

Ugh, I'm sorry guys. I haven't stopped either logging or lifting, but I have stopped relaying things here. These last couple weekends have been bad, as we've traveled for each, sacrificed workout days, and eaten more freely. And I've put off making a big catchup post until I could coordinate with MrsWookie to post her data as well, but that hasn't worked out. So, here's a lifting update for me.

I haven't lifted since 10/1. With travel, it hasn't worked out. But, I lifted today.

MrWookie:

Squats:
45x5x2
95x5
135x5
185x5
225x5x3

Passed. This was damn hard, but I got every rep finally.

Bench Press:
45x5x2
70x5
95x3
125x2
140x5x3

Last week I tried 145 out of hubris (I'd only "just barely" failed 140), but I failed on the 2nd set. Then I backed down to 140 and still couldn't complete. This week, I was conservative and just got in a complete 140. It was my easiest set, but I completed it.

Deadlift:
165x3
225x2
275x5

Getting the first and the last reps of 275 off the ground took staggering amounts of WIM for me. I didn't think it was going to happen, but I was going to make it happen anyway. And I made it happen. I was completely spent afterwards, though, and MrsWookie even unracked most of the weights for me while I sat and panted before we left. But, I did it.

Progress on all lifts. Risk of needing a reset averted. And I ate 3255 food calories today, -578 biking calories, -??? lifting calories, and 253 g protein. We're still working on the missus's numbers.

I just realized that the bench press numbers I posted here on 9/24 are wrong and are inconsistent with my own personal log's numbers. I said I was benching 145 for my work set, but that's not right. It was 140. On 9/24, I attempted to add 5 lbs from my 9/19 bench of 135, and I failed the last rep. On 9/28, I pridefully attempted 145 before being humbled back to 140, failing both. Today, I easily aced 140, because I wanted to just ace the weight before doing 145. Nailing 140 now was better than risking failing thrice and needing to step down.

Hooooo boy. Lifting day was not good.

Squats:
45x5x2
95x5
135x3
185x2
230x0

Yes, zero. I failed the first rep. I didn't try again, as I didn't think I had it in me.

Press:
45x5
60x3
75x2
90x5x3

The lone bright spot on the day. I finally passed 90 on the 3rd try.

Deadlift:
165x3
235x2

And that was it. I felt no strength in me to even attempt 280.

Yesterday and today, I've just felt weak. It was different from being DOMSy. I wasn't so much sore as I could just tell that my muscles were pretty spent and a little tight. I might have overexerted myself in the last work out, but I certainly hadn't recovered well. Things that were different in my routine that might have impacted recovery:
1. I was a little low on protein yesterday, 187 g instead of the more typical 200+, but that wasn't terribly low.
2. I only got 7-7.5 hrs sleep the last couple nights instead of the usual 7.5-8.
3. Today, for logistical reasons, I went to lift before lunch instead of before dinner, so I had one less meal in me compared to normal, and a few hours less rest.

Would any of that really cause abject failure, though? I am kinda wondering if I'm reaching the limits of what I can gain while still cutting weight. But even then, the last two weekends have been rather gluttonous (trip home to see the folks, and a wedding). I've had a number of days were I was at maintenance or maybe a couple hundred over, so I'm surprised I'm hitting this wall now.

Hey Wookie, never realized you had had a log here. I can't imagine 1 or 2 is the culprit. 3, maybe, but I think it's more likely, as you suggest, that it's the cutting. FYI I was recently stuck at 225 on my squat for a long time while I was eating at maintenance, then I recently started bulking and have shot up to 250 (and counting). Anecdotal, obviously, but maybe there's something to 225.

Yeah, I'm not sure, but it does seem like the most likely explanation is that I'm running out of n00b gains and/or I'm reaching about the limit of what I can gain while cutting. We knew this day was coming, but I was sorta hoping it would be a little further down the road, maybe after a 3rd month or so. As for what to do, I really want the last of my gut to go away, but I also want to keep progressing in strength and adding muscle. My current plan is to continue the cut until I fail thrice in at least one exercise that isn't the press, and then consider switching to eating at maintenance against just stepping down in weight and continue to lift on a cut and seeing if I can make more progress after stepping down. I'll hear a case if people think I should be reconsidering right now, though.

Also, here's the lifting routine of MrsWookie from Wednesday. She couldn't lift today, as we were going to the game. That's why I lifted early, but she couldn't make it happen.

10/8:

Goblet Squats:
20x5
35x3

High bar back squats:
50x3
65x3
75x5x3

This was big news, as not only did MrsWookie achieve a new high in weight squatted in any form, she also was achieving an acceptable or at least near-acceptable depth on a good number of her reps. She hadn't been going all that low since she sprained her ankle, but she's feeling better now. She also squatted 80x2, just to see what it felt like. 75 was kinda easy, she said, and she was considering trying 85 next time. 80 was challenging enough that we're going to stick to 5 lb jumps.

Bench Press:
20x5
30x5
45x3
60x2
70x4
70x5
70x4

She couldn't quite complete 70 here.

Deadlift (<135 are RDL):
60x5
95x3
135x2
160x5

Progress here. She's looking forward to being able to deadlift her body weight.

Yesterday was pretty bad. We were up in Napa drinking wine and eating at fine restaurants. It was worth it, easily -- this wasn't gas station muffin **** -- but we were both over budget by at least 1500 calories while being somewhat low on protein on the day.

Lifting day!

MrWookie

Squats:
45x5x2
95x5
135x3
185x2
230x2x2
230x1

Progress of sorts, but not passing the new weight.

Bench press:
45x5x2
70x5
95x3
135x2
145x5x3

But I managed to progress here.

Deadlift
165x3
235x2
280x5

And I progressed here, much to my surprise. It wasn't even as hard as doing 275 last Wednesday. Also of note was the fact that I caught onto the advice around her to use a double overhand grip on warmup deadlift sets, even if you feel you need the alternate grip for the work set. I've been doing this for the first warmup, but sometimes even the 2nd warmup felt too heavy for a double overhand grip. This time, I did 235 with a double overhand grip, so that's good news, too.

So, I'm not sure what the deal is with squats, but otherwise I'm actually still progressing.

MrsWookie:

Goblet squats:
20x5
35x3

Squats:
45x3
60x3
70x2
80x5x3

Bench press
30x5
45x3
60x2
70x5x2
70x3

She couldn't pass here, again.

Deadlift (<135 are RDLs):
65x5
95x3
140x2
165x5

She was caught off guard by the weight and blew it on the first rep attempt. Her form was a little off, too. But, she tightened up after than an completed 5.

Lifting day!

It's official. I've hit a wall.

Squats:
45x5x2
95x5
135x3
185x2
230x3
230x1
230x2

Again, this was an improvement, but this is my third failure to do 5x3 in a row. I guess it's time for a step down in weight, or I'm otherwise open to suggestions.

Press:
45x5
65x3
80x2
95x4
95x2x2

I can't say I'm surprised I failed here. I actually did better than I expected. On both sets where I only did 2, I got a third rep half way up before giving up.

Deadlift:
170x3
240x2
285x3

I failed again, but once again, I did better than I expected. I got the weight off the floor, but after the third rep, there was nothing left.

MrsWookie:

Goblet Squats:
25x5
40x3

High bar back squats:
50x3
65x3
75x2
85x5x3

Success

Press. She actually hasn't done press in a long time, and it showed.
20x5
30x3
45x3
55x2
50x5x3

This is a big step down.

Deadlift (under 135 RDL)
65x5
100x3
140x2
170x5

Progress.

For me, I made a conscious decision to bike less on MTW, to be very high in my protein, and to eat at at smaller deficit in that span (250 cal/day deficit instead of 500). It wasn't enough. I still couldn't finish my squats. That's bad, but we knew this day was coming. I guess I need to step my squats down in weight, and maybe I need to consider eating more. I did better than I expected on my press and deadlift, but it's time for some evaluation.

MrsWookie is still going strong, other than the press. She's missed more workouts than I have, however, and she has somewhat more fat stores to expend towards building muscle.

Oh, we also finally got some measurements in today. It's been too long, but I'll try to post some current garphs soon.

reset 10%, then work back up in 5lb increments. amrap for the last set is optional but a good idea if it feels really easy.

Yeah, that's the plan for now.

Lifting Friday! (Sorry for the delay in posting. It was MrsWookie's birthday this weekend)

MrWookie:

Squats:
45x5x2
80x5
120x3
160x2
205x5x3

-25 lbs on the reset. This was...surprisingly difficult, and thus a little humbling, but I got through it.

Bench Press:
45x5x2
75x5
105x3
135x2
150x5x3

Progress for a third time in a row. Amidst some struggles on many exercises, the bench press has been pretty good to me lately.

Deadlift:
165x3
240x2
285x1

Yep, only one on the work set. I got the weight off the ground on the second rep, but I was completely exhausted and couldn't get it all the way up. That's 2 failures.

MrsWookie:

Goblet squats:
25x5
40x3

High bar back squats:
50x3
60x3
70x3
80x2
90x5x3

Progress. MrsWookie likes her seemingly-too-long warmup.

Bench Press:
30x5
45x3
55x3
65x2
70x5x3

More progress. Passed this after two failures.

Deadlift (<135 RDL):
70x5
105x3
145x2
175x5

More progress.

Lifting Sunday!

MrWookie only, as MrsWookie elected to go to some pumpkin festival and play hookey.

Squats:
45x5x2
80x5
125x3
210x5x3

Again, it felt tougher than doing 20 lbs less than my peak "should," according to my uninformed estimation, but I passed.

Press:
45x5
50x5
65x3
80x2
95x4x3

A second failure, but improvement over last time. There's pretty good reason to believe that I can pass next time.

Deadlift:
165x3
240x2
285x5

Nailed it. It took quite a bit of will to pass this one, but I wasn't going to fail a third time.

Yeah nice bench progress. How did the sets feel? What's your weight at now?

I'm going for 155 tomorrow. Mayyybe 160.

You're at a point where it's a PITA to increase 5lb on the press so regardless if you get 3x5 next time or not I'd invest some $ in 1lb weights so you can move up in 2 and 3 lb increments.

What's your weight now? You might be at a point where most of your lifts will stall or even start to go down in which case you have to decide what's more important, strength or getting skinnyripped. If this happens you could reduce the volume but keep intensity high to help with recovery since it takes a hit on a cut to see if it helps you maintain or even increase your strength levels. I think Pummi had a reasonable approach when he was cutting so check his log.

Either way in reality keeping your lifts the same while going down in weight is still progress as your strength to bw ratio improves so I wouldn't see it as a big negative.

I actually weighed in at like 214 and change this morning, but I think I need to poop and shed some water weight after an indulgent Saturday (MrsWookie's birthday), and yesterday I ate more because I biked a lot more than normal, needing to bike both to and from the gym. I was 210.0 on Friday. I know I posted in the OP that I weighed in at 214 and something that night, but that was after working out, and I hadn't drunk enough water. I was at upper 216 or lower 217 for the next several days after that during regular morning weigh ins. So, I'd say I'm down about 6-7 pounds since the start, although I've been pretty close to maintenance over the last month due to a pile of celebrations.