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SC's 5k Run Log SC's 5k Run Log

08-02-2012 , 04:29 PM
...and if you changed the 17 to that next tuesday, you'd change the next 18 to the following tuesday, and then you'd get back on schedule with the 13 on that next sunday? I think that's good, but if you were feeling even a little flat then I would cut back that 13 on sunday to 10 or whatever.

My other thought is that the 8-5-8 you're shooting for next week is sort of weird because 8 is already the longest mid-long run you do, so to then do two of them in three days, only three days after a half-marathon race effort...I dunno.

I would probably just go 8 on the thursday, make that wednesday and friday 4ish-5ish, and then if you wanted more quality, I'd throw in six strides either on the wednesday or the thursday. Don't stress about the weekly mileage, you're doing fine.

I'm not sure what you guys called strides back when all of us were all-county, but for new marathon runners, probably the best way to do one rep is to just gently accelerate from an easy pace up to about your mile race pace: strides are definitely not sprints. Do this acceleration over about 30 seconds, hold for a beat or two, then back down to easy pace. If you don't want to stare at your watch, instead you could count steps and just gently accelerate through say 45 left-foot strikes, hold for 5, and back to easy pace. Repeat for maybe six strides total, whatever feels right. Your main thought while you're running these should be to run them relaxxxxed. In a perfect world you'd toss in the reps towards the very end of your run, and you'd run them on something softer than concrete.
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08-03-2012 , 12:22 PM
Ok I'll take another look at my schedule.

Ugh, major binge dinner last night. My sister in law had a gift certificate for $150 at an Italian place to split between 4 people.

So obviously I racked up a ~2,000 calorie dinner including:

Pasta bolognese
Focaccia
Wine (3 glasses)
Small arancino
Vodka martini
Salami
Mussels
Semifreddo

Plus a beer and a king-size Payday in the afternoon. About a 3,600 calorie day, and I only burned ~480 running.

Oh well. Big spaghetti dinner tonight and then I'm gonna crush the half marathon tomorrow morning before watching the Olympic 10k race.
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08-03-2012 , 12:52 PM
Soo what's the plan for the half-marathon? Are you shooting for any times/splits or are you going by feel? Is anyone going to run sections of it with you? Are you gonna crush a 7000 calorie dinner beforehand or do you think you have the guts to make it all the way to 8?
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08-03-2012 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Man
Soo what's the plan for the half-marathon? Are you shooting for any times/splits or are you going by feel? Is anyone going to run sections of it with you? Are you gonna crush a 7000 calorie dinner beforehand or do you think you have the guts to make it all the way to 8?
Heh. No on the 7kcal dinner, but I am having Sunday Gravy (spaghetti and meatballs) because that's what my inlaws are making -- and we're heading up to their place for the weekend. It's just a happy coincidence that I'm racing the morning after since that's a classic pre-race dinner.

I won't stuff myself but I probably will have a pretty solid portion. No booze, though.

Not sure whether anyone is running with me or not. My friend the marathon maniac lives up there and she said she wants to do 13-16 on Saturday but I'm pretty sure she won't be able to keep up with me. I'm going to go out at around an 8:15-8:20 pace and try to maintain that as long as I can, then finish faster if possible.

It's a nice place for a long run... there's a winding, gently hilly country road that I can follow the whole time. I ran a ~38:00-ish 5 miles there a couple months ago when I was running too hard on a regular basis.

edit: 38:45 for 5 miles

Last edited by SomethingClever; 08-03-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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08-03-2012 , 02:09 PM
good plan

obv it's going to be hard to put in the same effort as you would if it was a half-marathon with 5000 other people, but still, this is definitely one of your key workouts--it's going to help A TON for the marathon.

the worst thing you could do (by far) would be to start too fast, so if you run the first half-mile in 3:30 then man, just knock it off, and if you run the first two miles in 14:30, then you're already screwed.

But on the other hand, once you've run a smart first ten miles and you're coming in at like 1:20 to 1:23, then like you said, don't be afraid to push your luck a little, don't let yourself off the hook and float home, you should not be super comfortable for the last half-hour of this.

good luck!
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08-03-2012 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
the worst thing you could do (by far) would be to start too fast, so if you run the first half-mile in 3:30 then man, just knock it off, and if you run the first two miles in 14:30, then you're already screwed.
No chance of that. I run with a GPS that constantly updates my average pace. So I can just glance at it and see that I'm going too fast.

Quote:
But on the other hand, once you've run a smart first ten miles and you're coming in at like 1:20 to 1:23, then like you said, don't be afraid to push your luck a little, don't let yourself off the hook and float home, you should not be super comfortable for the last half-hour of this.
Yep, that's exactly the plan. I was thinking about 10 miles at just over 1:20. If I get there I feel like I should be able to finish with like a 24:00 5k or maybe even slightly faster. We'll see. I have a whole range of goals, with 1:40 flat being the absolute best-case, sub 1:49 being "average" (just enough to beat my friend's recent time) and sub 2:00 being kind of a worst-case partial blow-up but still under 2:00 so not the end of the world.
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08-03-2012 , 03:33 PM
Whoops, I meant 1:44 flat, not 1:40. Just a hair faster than 8:00 pace is what I intended.
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08-03-2012 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingClever
Whoops, I meant 1:44 flat, not 1:40. Just a hair faster than 8:00 pace is what I intended.
Good luck! I am really looking forward to seeing how you do.

This thread has proven to be good motivation for my own training, just so you know!
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08-04-2012 , 02:39 PM
HM race complete. Wow, it was hot out there.

As of 3am last night I wasn't sure whether I was even going to run today, as our son was up with a runny nose and cough and I had barely slept.

We were supposed to camp but we arrived too late to pitch a tent, so we just set up sleeping bags on the floor which ended up being pretty uncomfortable. Then our son woke up somewhere around 1:30-2am pretty sick and we actually considered driving 90 minutes back to town. But we settled back down around 3am and I was able to sleep until about 7:45 at that point.

Woke up sore and exhausted from fitful sleep on a floor, felt like crap. Downed two coffees and some bread and waited to poop.

Our neighbor showed up; he ran the first 3 miles with me. Without further ado... splits.

Spoiler:
7:35

Spoiler:
ruh roh

Spoiler:
7:46

Spoiler:
zomg wtf

Spoiler:
8:21

Spoiler:
8:05
8:10
8:22
8:13
7:54
8:19
8:28
8:16
8:25
8:29
:50


For a totally
Spoiler:
awesome
time of
Spoiler:
1:47:22
Spoiler:


I'll post more thoughts later... gotta get cleaned up and head into town to watch the Olympic 10k.
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08-04-2012 , 10:09 PM
That's not bad at all. How did it feel? I'm thinking that you obviously went a bit too fast on your first two miles and that this probably made the last few miles a bit harder/slower than they could have been. Still, that's a solid time based upon your training.

Congrats!
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08-04-2012 , 10:57 PM
It felt fine through about 10 miles. Then it was just too hot. I was dragging at the end -- no kick whatsoever. Like I said, I wanted to get a much earlier start because I knew it was going to be like 95+ degrees here today but I just couldn't make it happen.

I'm plenty happy with the time but if it had been cooler out I think I could have gone sub 1:44 ezpz.
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08-05-2012 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
I was thinking about 10 miles at just over 1:20.
FWIW my 10 mile split was 1:21:14... which makes my finishing 5k just over 26 mins

Really, it was insanely hot.
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08-06-2012 , 05:58 PM
Funny thing about the McMillan running calculator:

Based on a 5k I ran like 2-3 months ago, it predicts something like a 3:33 marathon. Based on the half-marathon I ran two days ago, it predicts 3:45.

So I'm in way better shape now and I feel like a 1:47 half marathon is way more impressive than a 21:52 5k. lol?

Now, based on what I WANT to run in the 5k this weekend, it predicts a 3:10 marathon
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08-06-2012 , 06:11 PM
The Mcmillan calculator is not a predictor it is more of a equal-value of times spread across different distances. Basically just says your 5k is much higher value than anything longer. I'm sure your mile time would be even better rated than your 5k. I wouldn't use it as a predictor unless you are starting from 800/ mile and dropping your values a little as you move to longer distances. There should be around 3 events that tie closely together though. So your 2- mile/5k/8k I would think are very closely related. If they advertise it as a predictor it is just to get more people to the site.
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08-06-2012 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Basically just says your 5k is much higher value than anything longer.
Yeah, that's what's weird to me. I guess a 1:47 HM is "slower" than a 21:52 5k but it seems like a much more difficult thing to achieve.
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08-06-2012 , 08:10 PM
If you take someone like Ryan Hall and his 60:00 HM is valued at like 3:43 mile and 7:55 2- mile, which is ridiculous. He can't break 4:05 in marathon shape, so it can work both ways I guess. Also the marathon WR is like a 3:38 mile and the WR is 3:43, so i guess it isn't a value scale. Probably took some median sample and merged the times or something weird.
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08-06-2012 , 09:09 PM
I think the calculator is powerful. The main way to miss the point of the calculator is to train for the mile and then race the mile and then plug your number in and assume that the marathon time it spits out is what you'll run in your first marathon two weeks later even though you've never trained for the marathon. And yeah, granted, to us and to other non-idiots that logic is plainly idiotic, but hey it's a wide country and millions of people on the bell curve have lived their whole lives getting bashed in the head by the clapper

As you guys know, the calculator is only meant to work if you train for marathon as appropriately as you trained for the 5K. Sure some people are naturally better at longer or shorter stuff, and that's when it starts to break down a little--but only a little. Obviously it's really dumb to extrapolate someone's 400m dash time into their 100 mile vision quest, but for most runners the calculator does a great job as a predictor. By "most runners" I mean people ranging in ability from beginners to studs of the local running club who are willing to run between 20-60ish mpw.

We can definitely punch in a bunch of extreme cases and make the calculator look bad, but for any situation that anyone itt is ever going to deal with, the calculator is solid, especially for race times. I wouldn't defend all of its training pace numbers, but even those are more right than wrong.
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08-07-2012 , 03:54 PM
The calculator won't work for anything within an event or two from your input event. So if you put in 800m time 400/1600 or 1600/3000 should be fairly close. Once it gets more than that it is not accurate. 1/2M to mar. might be somewhat close. The marathon will be the hardest to predict because there aren't enough races people run close enough, and things happen to the body in a Marathon that might not necessarily happen in 1/2 mar. Comparing your 5k and marathon will be worthless for 99% of people. It can be a fun tool to show your potential, but I would strongly suggest not to put too much stock into what it predicts.

If by "train for 5k as appropriately train for marathon" means that you have trained for years for 5k, EX. High school/College 5k runner, and then moved on to marathon for about 3-4 years, then I think it can be pretty close.

I don't want to make this into an argument about how good an online running calculator is, just think it is very hard to predict marathon times closely based off almost any other race time.

Last edited by Everytime; 08-07-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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08-08-2012 , 11:22 AM
How was it recovering from the half? No big thing? Lingering soreness?
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08-08-2012 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Man
How was it recovering from the half? No big thing? Lingering soreness?
Yeah, it was no problem. I drank about 32 oz of gatorade and ate 3 scrambled eggs and a banana within 20 minutes of returning. Did my usual stretching and foam roller routine. No lingering soreness and my hips and feet didn't ache at all.

Then I spent the whole day following my son around at an outdoor party and slept in a tent. I woke up a few times with weirdly intense pain on the outside of my left knee that would mysteriously go away when I switched positions. But the next day I was fine and I haven't felt anything similar since.

I took Sunday off and then did 5 miles @ 9:08 pace on Monday, and 7 miles at 8:57 pace yesterday. Gonna try to fit another 5 in today, then rest Thursday, do 5 on Friday, rest Saturday, 5k on Sunday.

Question about the upcoming 5k:

So none of my friends were able to register in time. But they will be there to cheer me on. Without having to worry about beating my friend, I'm considering the approach of going out with the leaders in the race and trying to stay within touch of third place (because it won't really matter if I blow up a little bit). The way it usually goes in these things is that there's like 1 fast guy who will run in the 16s or 17s, but 2nd will definitely be in the 18s and third could be mid 19s. I feel like I could potentially be in mid-19s shape, and I kinda really want to ship one of the medals they give to the top 3 finishers.

The other option (probably smarter) is to shoot for around 13:00 at 2 miles regardless of what the leaders are running, then try to crank the last 1.1 to get sub 20.

Thoughts?
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08-08-2012 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingClever

The other option (probably smarter) is to shoot for around 13:00 at 2 miles regardless of what the leaders are running, then try to crank the last 1.1 to get sub 20.

Thoughts?
I think this is definitely the smarter option. I've always had a problem of going out too quickly; my best races have always had either pretty even or negative splits. If you are trying to get the most out of this race, negative splitting is your best bet. You still have the potential here to come from behind and sneak up on the third place spot. And outkicking someone is always more satisfying than just trying to hold on.

good luck! Keep us posted on how you do.
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08-08-2012 , 03:21 PM
I'm with KRM, I vote run it smart, run it for your best time. One, because this is going to give us the best gauge of where you are, which will help with training paces. Two because running it smart is going to give you the best shot at the podium anyway--it's not like you're gonna be up against a bunch of tactical geniuses.

Obviously it's going to be incredibly tempting to start too fast, god knows everybody else will. I know you would never go way too fast for say the first ten minutes, but it's almost as bad if you go too fast for even the first 90 seconds. You know how these local 5Ks go, everybody's going to burst off the line in the first two minutes like ****ing Secretariat. And it's gonna feel so easy, you're gonna feel so strong, but **** that, let them go, and even smile as they go by, because passing them back later feels so much better than vice versa. The Jack Daniels running cliches feel right to me: every second you go out too fast in the beginning will cost you two seconds at the end. And the worst mistakes you can make in a race are all in the first two minutes.

If you're really going for sub-20, then my advice is to shoot for even splits. There's actually some newer research that shows that for most runners it can be best to run the first third a liiiiiitle bit faster, meaning that if you're going for 6:25 splits, it's probably ok to run the first mile in say 6:15. But absolutely don't push your luck. Aim to run your two-mile split in 12:40ish, and then mentally have yourself prepared to suck it up for the next few minutes, let's say from 13:00 to 17:00. If you're on pace after two miles, then whatever happens, make up your mind right now to absolutely not relax from 13-17. The first half of the third mile is when most people are tempted to float a little, but that's when you should do the opposite and grit your teeth and dig in
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08-08-2012 , 03:23 PM
oh and the knee:

probably nothing to freak out over, but fwiw you are like the perfect candidate for ITB issues, which very often present as a pain on the outside of the knee. The bad news is that this can eventually screw up your long runs, but the good news is that it's usually super manageable, mostly by foam rollering the **** out of the outsides of your legs, once or twice a day. I'm thinking you probably already know how to do this for ITB stuff.
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08-08-2012 , 03:59 PM
Yeah... probably smarter to manage my pace. The only reason I'm tempted to go the other route is because I'm pretty good at attaching myself to someone and never letting them go, even if they're in better shape than I am. (And I can out-sprint just about anyone at the end if necessary). It's a mental thing... I sometimes start to panic a little bit when I have to think about my pace (in a fast race). I think, "oh ****, this is really hard; I can't possibly go faster." When I have someone to follow I just think, "this ****er isn't getting away from me no matter what" and I don't sweat anything else.
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08-08-2012 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Man
oh and the knee:

probably nothing to freak out over, but fwiw you are like the perfect candidate for ITB issues, which very often present as a pain on the outside of the knee. The bad news is that this can eventually screw up your long runs, but the good news is that it's usually super manageable, mostly by foam rollering the **** out of the outsides of your legs, once or twice a day. I'm thinking you probably already know how to do this for ITB stuff.

I think I've felt ITB pain before and it was different than this. But yeah, I know that foam roller is my best weapon if it starts flaring up.
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