Just read through Grey's post... my goals and background are a little different, and I want to keep a log of my results so I'm making my own thread rather than posting in his.

So, the story is that I've decided I want to work on running a semi-fast 5k. I ran track and cross country in high school and my personal record for the distance is 16:53.

Well, about 14 years later I'm about 40 pounds heavier and haven't been training intensely. I do exercise a good amount, including some running, basketball and weight lifting, but nothing like I did at my peak.

I'm 6'1", about 183 lbs. My first attempt at a 5k resulted in a 28:18 time. This was on a treadmill, fwiw.

I went back to the gym a few days later, tried a little harder and ran 26:02. The next run after that was another new pr, this time 25:55. I regressed some on my most recent attempt, running 27:31, but I felt like puking the whole time b/c my stomach wasn't entirely empty.

Some observations and questions:

- I would like to lose some weight... maybe as much as 10-12 pounds, but I also don't want to lose muscle. I haven't been lifting intensely for a couple months, but I have been mixing in some limited stuff. I don't care about being as strong as possible -- basically if I can remain as strong as I am now but 12 pounds lighter or so, I will be happy.

- What kind of time is reasonable to expect to achieve? I wouldn't say I'm trying to break 17 minutes again, but I kind of think I'd like to break 20. Getting under 24 would be a good start, maybe that will be my initial goal.

- In high school we ran every day during the week, pretty hard, and then had meets on Saturdays. Generally I took Sunday off. Should I be running 6 days a week now, or will that be overtraining?

- I plan on mixing in some longer runs and shorter interval work. I can still sprint pretty fast, but I wouldn't mind being faster and gaining some vert as well. I know that distance running won't necessarily do a ton in that department, but I think being a bit lighter will help. In high school I mostly trained distance but I could still jump like a mother****er.

- Semi-related background: A couple years ago Alobar posted a thread in OOT challenging people to run a mile and time it. I did this once a week for maybe 6 or 7 weeks, with no additional training, and was able to go from something like 7:40 to 6:45 or so. So I'm hopeful I'll start shaving the minutes off my 5k time before long.

Finally, here is the log so far in a more readable format

1. 28:18
2. 26:02
3. 25:55
4. 27:31

Oh, one additional thing after scanning Grey's thread again.

My heart rate hovers around 165-170 when I'm running this speed (8:45 mile pace). I haven't checked it when I'm sprinting at my peak, but I know it's in the 180s as I've checked it on the way down after 30 seconds to 1 minute of the highest intensity I can muster.

Not sure what this means, just thought I'd include it.

sounds normal. 220 - age is a rough max HR.

Protein intake and strength training will be key if you want to maintain your LBM. What is your diet and training plan?

With your background you should be able to do sub-20 within a few months or so without too much effort. Start by jogging ~1/2 hour every other day. And I do mean jogging, not hard running. I'm sure I'll get flamed incessantly for saying this, but don't even think about doing any hard intervals. Just jog every other day at a conversational pace, throw in some weights/cross-training on the non running days, take some time off of running if you even think you're on the verge of injury, and lose a few pounds.

About once every 3-4 weeks, either do a local 5k race or find a real 400m track and do a time trial just to see where you're at. The average gym treadmill is not very accurate FWIW, so the times you're doing now could easily be +/- a minute from reality. Run these as hard as you can, but don't bother with any running speedwork outside of these races. If you really think you need some HIIT-type work just for general fitness, do it on a bike or in a pool where you're way less likely to end up hurt.

Do this for a handful of months without hurting yourself and you'll be sub-20 no problem. EZ game.

tbh I hadn't thought about changing my diet, but I'm open to suggestions. I eat pretty well right now (balanced meals made from scratch at home), but I frequently eat larger portions than I'd like.

As far as training, I hadn't come up with anything yet other than, "run a lot of 5ks."

I suppose I'm hoping to time myself in a 5k at least once a week, with probably 3-4 other days of running/lifting mixed in. But I don't want to lift a lot... just enough to not get weak.

No flaming here, but just jogging 1/2 an hour at a 10 minute/mile pace (conversational for me) sounds too easy. It sounds like you think I'm going to get injured.

Well, I do want to be careful not to overtrain, but you have to keep in mind that I haven't been sedentary before this. I play a fair amount of basketball at a high intensity, and I have been running on average probably once a week for the past year. Once I'm warm, I have no problem running a full sprint for 100-200 meters... no strains or pulls or anything. I have been doing intervals on occasion... generally I jog one block, sprint (well, not full sprint...) the next, jog the next... etc... for 1.5 to 2 miles.

Today I went for a short run ~2 miles. Didn't have time to get to the gym and do a full, timed 5k as we're heading out of town.

I didn't have a watch but I ran it pretty fast, probably no more than 17 minutes and likely mid 16s.

Following that with 3 sets of 20 pushups.

If I catch your time you're my bitch.

It's not just injury risk. I know it seems counterintuitive, but running all out 5k's on a regular basis is simply not effective 5k training. With your all out 5k pace currently being somewhere north of 8min/mi, speed is not your limiter. Aerobic endurance is. You improve that by putting in miles, period. There are no shortcuts. There is a significant recovery cost for an all out 5k effort that will severely impair your ability to build up your mileage.

I can't really tell you much about the physiology behind any of what I'm saying. Maybe GroundFloor or someone else with some real running cred will pop in here and elaborate on this. All I can say is that from personal experience it works.

GroundFloor had some posts that touched on the subject, that I can't find right now. Hopefully, he'll see this thread and post in here.

In the mean time, all the guys that are serious about distance running that post here, agree with Giant Tortoise. As does pretty much all of the literature regarding distance running.

Even Crossfit Endurance doesn't have the trainees run all out 5K's every time they run.

Fair enough, I believe you.

FWIW I wouldn't say that these 5k efforts are 100% all-out. If my life depended on it, I know I could run sub 24 today. That would be 100%. These are like 90-92% max effort. But yeah, they wear me out, and I understand your point.

On Sunday I ran 6 miles at a conversational pace, between 9:40 and 10:00/mile.

Are you running with a heart monitor? If it's over 165 beats/min, you're running too damn fast. When you stop, can you recover to normal breathing within 30 seconds?

The track season just ended. The top runners were running about 10 races in 12 to 15 weeks and they are exhausted.

8:30 pace or so puts me at 167 bpm.