damn, closed the window, so another try

three peaks seems very close to the marathon for such a hard race (but it looks cool). don't underestimate the recovery and play it by ear imho. (just don't expect a top performance, you'll probably still feel somewhat "sluggish").
gratz on ben nevis, sub2hr seems very realistic to me.

marathon sim run: sounds very very tough to me (without taper and race adrenalin and after a probably very hard week of workouts etc). 2hr M pace = >28km.
three points:
combining the longest run up2date with such a long M segment seems like too tough.
and i think your warm-up / cool down distance is too short. do at least 2k cool down in the end and imho 3-4k warm-up (that is obviously individual; but it just feels stuffed for a 32k run).
and the idea behind the final race simulation run is also to give you confidence and mental strength, so i would not consider doing a run with a considerable chance of failure.

suggestion: do a warm-up for a few k, then do a pace progression for a few K and then do the M segment). so let's say 3k easy, then km 3-8 a pace progression (eg start at 4:45 and work down regularly to 4:15; then 22k @ M and 2k cool-down.

anyway, you will have a better idea if it's realistic in the week leading up to it... (i suggest doing this 3 weeks out, 2 weeks seems too close to me; what's the plan?)

Had my regular neglect-this-thread-for-a-week period....

So I had a rest week or so, not much mileage at all, then on Friday I did my lactate test. It was definitely interesting but not overly conclusive. It turns out that my base aerobic fitness is far from fully developed. This resulted in a graph that made it very hard to accurately estimate my lactate threshold....



What it should really be like is a fairly flat line to start off then a sudden curve. Instead I get a gradual curve over the whole graph, and I think this is because my lactate levels are increasing even at low intensity, whereas they should be stable until I hit my threshold.

So despite not getting a conclusive, accurate outcome, I did get some valuable training advice, and I've had my heart rate zones estimated.

Apparently I haven't been doing my long runs hard enough, and have been doing my recovery runs too hard. I have basically run everything except intervals/threshold runs at the same pace. What I need to do is separate my recovery runs from my endurance runs and train according to what each one is for.

Also because my base isn't at a decent level yet I don't think I need to do as much speed work and I should concentrate more on just developing aerobic capacity.

A final thing is that muscular endurance is a limiting factor for me that I need to address with regular strength/plyometrics work.

At first I was a bit pissed off that my base endurance is still at a basic level, but I'm actually really excited about it because it means there is tons of room for improvement just by putting in some consistent volume.

After my test I talked to the owner of the shop who is also a successful and experienced running coach. He was drilling into me the need for recovery and it has really made me rethink things a lot. Had I talked to him earlier I may not have entered the Three Peaks race, but as it is, I've entered so I'm going to do it. I am however going to rethink the rest of my season. I was planning on doing several other long hard races, especially a 24 mile very tough fell race in July, but I now feel it would be counterproductive.

It's tricky because racing is awesome and it's good fun to go to races every other week, but otoh I'm really enjoying getting some decent training in and I'm excited to see improvements. I won't be able to get the training in (and therefore the improvements) if I'm just racing regularly with not enough recovery.

I think my plan will be to just take a good 6 weeks recovery after the Three Peaks and then resume some quality training while putting in a few short-medium races. I already have an OCR at the start of August, and Ben Nevis at the start of September, so one or two small fell races in between would be enough imo.


I've changed my plan on this. I think now what I'm going to do is 30min at 5:00/km, 90min at 4:15/km then finishing off with another 30min of 5:00/km but slowing at the end for a cool-down. This will be tough, and while it'll be the longest run I've done, it'll be similar time-wise to a lot of other long runs, and will only be a few km longer than my longest to date (30km yesterday).

I'm going to do this 4 weeks out from the race and it will be the last really hard run I'll do. I will probably do a long run maybe 10 days later, so ~2.5 weeks out, but only around 25km probably and then I will be tapering from there.

Gonna out myself as a lurker to dig this thread up.

How's marathon prep going?

Hey, thanks for popping in!

It's going really well actually despite the lack of updates in here. I've been implementing the hr training from the advice the coach gave me after the lactate test. This means I've been doing my general aerobic runs faster and my recovery runs slower. This may be random variance, but after just 2 weeks of doing this, I seem to be running at a faster pace for the same heart rate of 150bpm, by about 10s/km.

On Friday I did my last big, tough run. 32km with the first hour at normal aerobic pace then an hour at marathon pace (4:15/km) and then the final hour back at normal pace. It was tough, and the though of keeping that pace going for 3 hours is pretty daunting. However I did run around 40km in the 3 days before (including 12km the day before). With another 4 weeks of adaption to training, and with a good taper, I'm pretty confident.

I'm going to do another week of resonable volume, but down from the 80km I have been doing. I think next week I'm going to shoot for around 65km, with a long run of 25km on Thursday/Friday. That will be 3.5 weeks to go so I think it's reasonable to do a long run there, and then start to taper down.

Sounds good, I'm sure you're in a decent position to reach your goal given the good preparation.
I might shoot for sub 3h next year, so always good to see how other people approach this

update time?

Yeah sorry, I got bored with regularly updating this thread as I think there are only like 3-4 people actually reading it.

Training has been going very well. I feel that a combination of the regular mileage, and running at a faster pace for my general aerobic runs has been paying off and I'm feeling as fit and fast as I ever have.

I did my last big week 2 weeks ago and my last two weeks have been around 55k. Going to do similar this week,maybe a touch less, then rest up well next week.

I'm feeling really ready for the marathon and am eager to just get it done now. I'm pretty confident that I'm capable of achieving my goal, but I'm also aware that if I've overestimated my abilities, it's possible that I could completely blow up and end up coming in 10/20/30 minutes over my target. I'm well prepared for this so won't be too let down if that does happen.

Make me 1 of those 3-4 then!

Good to hear.
Make sure to keep intensity high enough even during the taper. Reduce volume, but don't simply switch to just easy runs.

Good luck!

I think you're better shooting for the stars and blowing up epically, knowing you gave it your all than set a more modest (say 3:05) pace, and curse yourself because you had something left in the tank. Go big or go home.

Thanks guys.

Tron - the taper plan is to work a bit of faster stuff into most runs to keep the intensity high, and to keep my legs used to working at race pace+. My runs will be shorter and I'll have more rest days to lower the volume.

Brickie - I'm definitely going for the big target. I'm very sure that if I aimed at 3:05 that I'd get in relatively comfortably, so where's the fun in that? I don't intend to do many marathons in my life so I'm not ****ing around and playing it safe

+1
I read it when I see updates, even though I can't run due to knee issues. I still like seeing someone go after a goal, and sometimes I pick stuff up in unexpected places that applies to me. Plus I have downtime at work.....

+1

Hi guys! It's good to know I've not just been typing to myself all this time!

Last proper run today. Did 18k with 5k at marathon pace. It was a really resassuring run as during the race pace section my heartrate barely got above 160bpm. Everything is looking really good for next Sunday. Long term forecast is looking reasonable, I'm feeling in peak form, with no injuries except for a sore big toe which won't be an issue. I've done plenty of running at race pace, enough long runs, practiced drinking and taking on gels (while running at race pace), so the only factor now really is how I will feel after 2-2.5hr at that race pace.

+1 from another reader despite feeling that running in general is insane and marathon's are definitely the work of the devil. Mucho Respect! I feel that reading your log is a suitable substitute for me doing any cardio of my own.

Good luck!!

do you plan to run with a pace group?

Thanks guys. With all these lurkers coming out of the woodwork I guess I'd better keep updating!

I'm not sure yet. There is a 3hr pacer, but I will only run with them if they are running the exact pace I want to run. I've heard tales of people entrusting their race to a pacer, only to find the pacer has gone off way too fast or too slow, and wrecked the race of the group that's been following them.

I think my plan this week is going to look something like this:

Monday - off
Tuesday - 8-10k with small section at race pace
Wednesday - off
Thursday - 8-10k with small section at race pace
Friday - off
Saturday - 3k with strides
Sunday - race

+1, gl!

pacer: i expect a 3hr pacer to be WAY above average skillwise as a pacer. i mean those are (or at least should be) 2h30-2h40 runners that should know what is expected of a pacer. but sure, never trust them and go on your own if they are too fast / slow. that's definitely smart.
but i suggest to talk to them beforehand and ask about the pacing strategy. running in the group and not having to care (too much) about every split is certainly helpful to most runners.

week plan: i feel like thursday could probably be even a little shorter, more 6-7k. but that's just random gut feeling. whatever feels right.

best of luck, you got this.

Yeah you're probably right about doing slightly shorter tomorrow. Will aim for 6-8 probably.

You're probably right about the pacer being skilled at pacing. If I can get close to him I'll ask what his plan is, but I'll still def keep an eye on my own pacings.

Remember what happened with the half marathon? I'd just stick with the pacer...

i suggest to take manual splits and not rely on the gps splits (especially if you have any underpasses or tall buildings around). and remember that you'll probably end up running 42.3km or so due to tangents etc, so pace accordingly.

This is true, however.... The mile markers were way off in that race so I was relying solely on GPS which was slightly off. Also if you discount the HM I did in awful conditions last year it's the first race of that length that I've had to pace properly, and I wasn't really that far off, just a bit too fast in the first half.

Will definitely be using the mile markers to take manual splits. I'm either going to make a band for my wrist or just write my mile splits all up my arm. I'm assuming that the mile markers for this race will be accurate as it's a big city marathon with 10,000 runners so have to hope that it's organised very well..... although a couple of years ago it was found that the course was about 200m too short and everybody's times got altered.


Last proper run done today. Just 6km with a couple of fast km, and then some ~100m strides at the end. On Saturday I'll just go out for about 15 minutes for a slow paced run with a few strides to just get my legs moving.

Just made it in time to convey my best wishes!! Good luck - embrace the experience and share it with us