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Old 11-23-2009, 12:54 PM   #26
Duerig
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

Why should something come first because it's most important? I imagine if there were a good reason to put squats last, it would be listed that way in SS, with the caveat that if you're only going to do one lift, you do squat.

I read that you squat before you deadlift for the reason I listed above, and assumed this was the case for squatting before press / clean as well. That could be a bad assumption on my part, I dunno.
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:02 PM   #27
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

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Why should something come first because it's most important?
Most rested physically, most able to focus (especially for a lift requiring a lot of concentration like a squat).

I'm just saying personally I've gotten better results doing pressing exercises first because my shoulders aren't unnecessarily fatigued.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:17 PM   #28
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Questions regarding GOMAD and strong lifts 5x5

So I'm 19, 6''1 155 lbs and I want to gain weight. I've been working out, mostly with weights, for about 2 months 2-3 times a week. I recently started implementing running and spinning. I just read about GOMAD and I want to try it out and combine it with strong lifts 5x5. I just have a couple of questions. I apologize if the answers are really trivial and easy to look up, I just haven't been able to find them (although I haven't looked very hard ldo)

Do strong lifts completely replace your regular workout? If so, does that mean I should stop doing cardio?

From my understanding squats make your ass bigger. I really don't want this to happen. I want my ass to be nicely shaped and firm, but not huge. Is this gonna be a problem if I do squats? Should I just stick to running and spinning? Or can I combine the two?

What impact does body shape have on how useful this program is?

Also I typically only get between 6.5-7.5 hrs of sleep. Is this a big problem?

Thanks in advance

Last edited by SmileyEH; 11-23-2009 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Moved to beginner question thread. First warning fullontilt, please read FAQ before posting.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:26 PM   #29
Duerig
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

Okay, I'm glad this is in the beginner thread b/c I am really confused now.

- Do your shoulders get tired from squatting?

- If you think squat is the most important lift and the most important lift should come first due to focus, etc, why don't you do it first?

Last edited by Duerig; 11-23-2009 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Directed at smiley
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:31 PM   #30
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

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Okay, I'm glad this is in the beginner thread b/c I am really confused now.

- Do your shoulders get tired from squatting?

- If you think squat is the most important lift and the most important lift should come first due to focus, etc, why don't you do it first?
1. Low bar back squatting, yes.

2. Because the tiny benefit I get from doing squats first is outweighed by the fact they mess up my bench or press sets.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:35 PM   #31
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Re: Questions regarding GOMAD and strong lifts 5x5

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Do strong lifts completely replace your regular workout? If so, does that mean I should stop doing cardio?
yes, but i would do Starting Strength to start out instead of a 5x5 routine. workouts are easier to figure out as a beginner and the book is a must read for lift technique.

Quote:
From my understanding squats make your ass bigger. I really don't want this to happen. I want my ass to be nicely shaped and firm, but not huge. Is this gonna be a problem if I do squats? Should I just stick to running and spinning? Or can I combine the two?
your ass will get bigger, firmer, and more nicely shaped. your legs will also get bigger and more beautiful. your waist will get much bigger. you seem scared of this, but believe me, you'll look better.

Quote:
What impact does body shape have on how useful this program is?
certain lifts may stall before others vs. people with great proportions, but i really think the answer to this is zero. you have to compare SS with other programs for your body, since you are you. it is the most useful.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:50 PM   #32
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

Missed that thread - x-post from the LC thread:

I got a problem.
Through my college, I got the possibility to go to two gyms for free.
The one I can work out at every working day doesnt have a squat equipment, the other one does have it, but I can only workout there from tuesday through thursday.

Whats my play?
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:55 PM   #33
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

Order of movements is based on CNS and physical demand, not "importance" per se.

This is why olympic, explosive, and RFD movements are recommended in the beginning when you are "freshest." Squats, deadlifts, rack-pulls, etc follow.

There are times when it's worth deviating from this basic framework, like in smiley's case. For beginners though, stay basic.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:33 PM   #34
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Re: Questions regarding GOMAD and strong lifts 5x5

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Originally Posted by milesdyson View Post
your ass will get bigger, firmer, and more nicely shaped. your legs will also get bigger and more beautiful. your waist will get much bigger. you seem scared of this, but believe me, you'll look better.
Forgive my ignorance, but why would I want my waist to get bigger? I don't want to get fat. I've got a 34 inch waist right now and I think that's too big. Also, when I'm talking about my ass, I guess I'm confused by exactly what "bigger" means. I mean I want it to get round and toned, but I wouldn't want it to be big like the ass of a 300 lb woman, even if it was firm.

Thx for the replies btw
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:38 PM   #35
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

fot,

Without getting into specific body-part aesthetics, they key part of how you look will be down to your diet. In other words, starting strength can be a program that can help one get "Big" with gains in strength and muscle (and accompanying fat) as well as get "cut" with gains (if beginner) or maintenance of strength, gain (if beginner) or maintenance of muscle, and loss of fat. And of course, the many outcomes in between.

That will come down to your diet, total calories, protein intake, macros, etc as well as other energy expenditure.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:42 PM   #36
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

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Originally Posted by anklebreaker View Post
Order of movements is based on CNS and physical demand, not "importance" per se.

This is why olympic, explosive, and RFD movements are recommended in the beginning when you are "freshest." Squats, deadlifts, rack-pulls, etc follow.

There are times when it's worth deviating from this basic framework, like in smiley's case. For beginners though, stay basic.
Eh. This is Mike Boyle 101, and not a bad rule. But prioritization in the mesocycle, week, workout will create a different effect than a movement that is done when one is already fatigued.

In something like SS where the explosive movement is being learned and the loading is very low, or in a program with no explosive movements, you'll simply order based on need and importance.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:45 PM   #37
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

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Yeah it's mainly my press. Just keep at it I guess. I'm just super tired of failing reps on the press over and over. Tx BA
FWIW I've had solid success switching around the pressing exercise ordering when I get stuck. I have somewhat inflexible shoulders and squatting doesn't tire them per say, but all the stretching of the connective tissue in order to do a correct low bar squat definitely weakens both presses for me.

I'm not sure if TM for press is needed just yet though. If your press is 115 and your bench is 165 as it says in your log, then your press to bench ratio is pretty high. If you keep eating and keep making gains on the bench then the press should take care of itself.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:47 PM   #38
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

You don't seem to understand that at some point if "stronger" is to happen, "bigger" must accompany it.

Since beginning a Starting Strength and then an intermediate program (it's been about 6 months), I've gotten to a 500 lb. deadlift, 435 lb. squat, ~225 lb. bench (lol) at a constant bodyweight of 250 lbs at 6'1". (I've actually lost 10 pounds since starting the program.) While that's probably larger than you are comfortable with, my point is that I haven't gotten any heavier, but I've lost 2-3 inches in my waist and my upper body and thighs/ass have gotten significantly larger. This is basic recomposition and happens in nearly all novice trainees.

That said, strength gains after this period of time almost always have to accompany LBM gain, which doesn't come without some amount of body fat (it is impossible to gain pure muscle alone). To do this, you must have a caloric surplus.

This is the origin of the bulking/cutting cycle you hear so much about. At this point, I will probably start dieting, adding some cardio, and hoping to maintain my lifts (while increasing my pathetic bench) to cut some weight and restart the cycle 5-6 months from now. Who knows. I have sport-specific goals in mind; you may not.

Last edited by kyleb; 11-23-2009 at 03:48 PM. Reason: for fullontilt87
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:52 PM   #39
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

kyle, wouldn't you say gaining fatz is pretty much inevitable even for novices after a short while if they start out on a low body fat % though? Re: guys Rip posted as examples. Of course they got a massive LBM gain as well, just saying fat gain will happen as well.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:55 PM   #40
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

Sure, it absolutely is. But novices worried about "tone" and other assorted nonsense can eat at caloric maintenance, perform the program as advertised for 3-4 months, and see great recomposition and strength gains despite no caloric surplus. They'll just stall sooner and will recover poorer than someone who isn't afraid to gain a few pounds along the way.

I don't like telling people they need to eat a ****load more. Some people are vain and care about looking super pretty and fitting into medium-sized T-shirts. Obviously I don't, but I empathize with people who are single and need to look attractive to other women. Or men. Or both.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:07 PM   #41
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

I still fit into medium size t-shirts.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:09 PM   #42
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

But do you care that you do?
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:29 PM   #43
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

Serious question: is there a big point in finishing novice progress before cutting? Or is it fine to cut mid-way, then go back to bulking after cut + maintenance? For people who care about medium t-shirts and all I mean
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:38 PM   #44
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

thx for the replies
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:47 PM   #45
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General Diet Advice for Beginners to Bodyuilding

The book I have recommends a 3 day/week routine involving all the bread and butter (squats/deads/pull-overs/rows/curls) in 3 sets and about 8-10 reps. It also advocates just eating lots of whatever you feel like for bulking up initially, with no addressing of protein/carbs intake amounts or anything until after 4 weeks or so...

1. Are 3 sets definitely right?

2. Is the diet advice legit??
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:24 PM   #46
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Re: General Diet Advice for Beginners to Bodyuilding

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The book I have recommends a 3 day/week routine involving all the bread and butter (squats/deads/pull-overs/rows/curls) in 3 sets and about 8-10 reps. It also advocates just eating lots of whatever you feel like for bulking up initially, with no addressing of protein/carbs intake amounts or anything until after 4 weeks or so...

1. Are 3 sets definitely right?

2. Is the diet advice legit??
You dont even mention the name of the book...
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:25 PM   #47
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

1. Yes. Well, warmups are not included.
2. Pretty much. Depends on your goals.

Wait. I thought that you were talking about Starting Strength. Now I see curls. So my amended answer is:

1. Absolutely not.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:34 PM   #48
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

wtf I don't know how people proceed in weight lifting when there is so much conflicting advice and everybody is apparently so ldo sure they have it right.

I can find texts that advocate 1 sets and others that advocate 3 sets for the first month, goal being bulk up and prepare for 6 months of body building.

Doesn't everyone get frustrated?!
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:39 PM   #49
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

Nope. Read the FAQ. It makes it pretty simple.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:40 PM   #50
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re: ****Official Beginner Question Thread****

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wtf I don't know how people proceed in weight lifting when there is so much conflicting advice and everybody is apparently so ldo sure they have it right.

I can find texts that advocate 1 sets and others that advocate 3 sets for the first month, goal being bulk up and prepare for 6 months of body building.

Doesn't everyone get frustrated?!
be skeptical of everyone and be results oriented. look online for logs for any routine you hear about. you'll find a ton of SS logs not only here but everywhere on the internet, and you'll see better results in these than most others.
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