The O-lifting Thread - Page 27

theBruiser500 · 10-04-2010, 02:39 PM

why do you recommend the OHP for delts and traps instead of rows?

also, interestingly, my weak point is not catching overhead but throwing the weight up high enough. i imagine this is the most common problem but i don't think i extend my butt enough. i'm guessing i should do kb pulls and snatch pulls to practice this???

also i don't shrug my shoulders cause i can't time it right but i guess i don't care cause i am just training this to improve my jump to improve my sprint.

Doug Funnie II · 10-04-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBruiser500

why do you recommend the OHP for delts and traps instead of rows?

OHP = less stressful on the shoulder, closer to the actual motion/loading of the catch in the snatch and the jerk.

also, interestingly, my weak point is not catching overhead but throwing the weight up high enough. i imagine this is the most common problem but i don't think i extend my butt enough. i'm guessing i should do kb pulls and snatch pulls to practice this???

And power cleans. It has taken me a long time to develop a 2nd pull (where the bar goes from knee height to overhead) that is only 75% retarded. It's not going to come overnight, and if you don't have a coach then you need to video yourself and check your form every set until you develop some idea of what good form feels like. I think the "1000 non-fatigued/exhausted reps until you stop looking like a retard" is actually pretty accurate.

also i don't shrug my shoulders cause i can't time it right but i guess i don't care cause i am just training this to improve my jump to improve my sprint.

IMO the primary purpose of the shrug is to get your body moving down under the weight in preparation of the catch, and not to lift the weight any appreciable amount (although at low weights the shrug does help to move the weight up somewhat.

Either way have you considered Joe DeFranco's opinion on the olympic lifts? He says for most people they aren't worth the time and effort to learn them if your only goal is to train the triple extension of ankle, knee, and hip joints for improved sport performance. There's other stuff you can do like jump squats, weight box jumps, jump trap bar deadlifts, etc that have a much much shorter learning curve.

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Maximum Rocknroll · 10-04-2010, 08:42 PM

Exciting day in O-lifting today

**SmileyEH** · 10-04-2010, 09:31 PM

MR, eh?

theBruiser500 · 10-04-2010, 10:31 PM

doug i am going to respond to you now at my own peril. i just hope that smiley and kyle don't disagree with what i say, and they don't take offense to it, otherwise they might want to ban me from some more of their threads.

i would be surprised if the shrug doesn't help move the weight up. people shrug some big weights and those are some strong muscles also you can see in pictures and videos oly lifters have big traps.

i guess i will try some cleans also, but maybe not, my reasoning is that they eat into my limited resources and the snatch is better for me because it's more explosive and about power and less about strength.

to respond to your last point, part of the reason joedefranco doesn't recommend them, from what i've read, is the danger to getting injured for football and baseball players (this is what our friend kyle recently experienced and has now decided not to oly lift anymore), but those injuries are not as problematic for me. furthermore, i have been doing jump training for a while and maybe it's that i always test my vertical in a fatigued state, but my vertical has not gone up, so i want to try something new (and i will also be doing kb snatches). furthermore, i want to train people in the future so i think it's important for me to gain experience with as many exercises as i can.

finally, snatching is so much fun!

theblackkeys · 10-04-2010, 10:59 PM

boom bruiser is a sneaky little bastard. Next thing you know he's going to post a video of him DL'ing like 500 lbs or something.

Bruiser,
read the vertical jump bible by kelly baggett (a dude). It's possible you need to gain a lot more strength on your squats and deadlifts. But if you were fatigued from heavy lifting (and not just acute fatigue, it's possible to just always be a bit fatigued/inhibited due to frequent heavy training) I wouldn't draw any conclusions from that, since it is near impossible to tell HOW fatigued you are at any given point.

Thremp · 10-05-2010, 08:38 AM

My ability to accelerate a barbell with hip extension far exceeds the force imparted by the world's best "shrugger".

Doug Funnie II · 10-05-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBruiser500

i would be surprised if the shrug doesn't help move the weight up. people shrug some big weights and those are some strong muscles also you can see in pictures and videos oly lifters have big traps.

Of course it helps to move the weight up, especially at the weights you and I use. But focusing on the shrug instead of hip/knee extension when practicing form is not going to help you get better at the lifts or become more explosive in sprinting.

i guess i will try some cleans also, but maybe not, my reasoning is that they eat into my limited resources and the snatch is better for me because it's more explosive and about power and less about strength.

In my experience a hang power clean is a better way to train powerful hip extension because it's easier to learn how to perform in a way that will have a meaningful training effect and is less stressful on the shoulders and wrists. You can power snatch 40 kgs with a monopull from the floor all you want; the only thing you'll be making more explosive is your lower back.

to respond to your last point, part of the reason joedefranco doesn't recommend them, from what i've read, is the danger to getting injured for football and baseball players (this is what our friend kyle recently experienced and has now decided not to oly lift anymore), but those injuries are not as problematic for me.

True, a lot of oly lifting injuries are in the arms/shoulders which you could play soccer around. But the fact that they take a long time to learn should be a major concern of yours since time is not on your side for your soccer career. It could take you literally a couple years to learn how to do the olympic lifts well enough so that you get anything meaningful out of them. Is that time you can afford to waste?

furthermore, i have been doing jump training for a while and maybe it's that i always test my vertical in a fatigued state, but my vertical has not gone up, so i want to try something new (and i will also be doing kb snatches). furthermore, i want to train people in the future so i think it's important for me to gain experience with as many exercises as i can.

Fair enough, but I wouldn't bother thinking about the best accessory exercises to improve your vertical without a 2x bodyweight squat. And if you want to teach the olympic lifts at some point then you're going to have to gain an understanding of them beyond what you can accomplish from trying to do them and posting about them online. Buy a book on them and read it.

finally, snatching is so much fun!

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theBruiser500 · 10-07-2010, 12:50 PM

i just want to say i think the mod of this forum is a freak and a jerk.

hey thanks for responses. my low back has been tired and sore lately which i figured was from holding the snatch above head but maybe as i think you point out i am just using my low back in the pull part of the snatch... any cues i can use to make sure i'm using hip and quads and not low back?

Thremp · 10-07-2010, 01:12 PM

Cues at this point at utterly pointless.

downtown · 10-07-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBruiser500

i just want to say i think the mod of this forum is a freak and a jerk.

hey thanks for responses. my low back has been tired and sore lately which i figured was from holding the snatch above head but maybe as i think you point out i am just using my low back in the pull part of the snatch... any cues i can use to make sure i'm using hip and quads and not low back?

For some people, to use the hips and quads instead of the lower back "jump the bar up" works well. For others, "buy a ****ing book like people keep telling you over and over" or "get coaching" works better.

theBruiser500 · 10-07-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

Cues at this point at utterly pointless.

what do you recommend then if i want to use my back less and my legs more?

Thremp · 10-07-2010, 01:39 PM

Try having any sort of basic understanding first.

theBruiser500 · 10-07-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

Try having any sort of basic understanding first.

just give me some hints on stuff i can keep in mind in the gym and work with to get better

Thremp · 10-07-2010, 01:53 PM

Do you not understand that cues are to address specific problems whereas you don't have specific problems, you're simply weak and uncoordinated and attempting to get cues via self-coaching... which is really bizarre.