Does anyone have experience / thoughts on mixing the leangains protocol with paleo / primal diet (so basically doing everything in the leangains protocol except for the diet itself and using a paleo / primal diet instead)

I'm wondering if anyone was able to adhere to his stricter lifting protocols while still keeping low carbs (AND still gaining muscle AND not feeling like crap).


The reason I ask is:
I've been doing exactly that for a few weeks now so it's hard for me to give results...I've gotten through the lifts alright...but I'm a bit worried I won't be putting on muscle if I don't throw down some carbs after the workouts.

BUT, my energy levels and sleep have been pretty astounding to me, just in 3 weeks time. Also, I never get lightheaded when missing a meal and I never crash after a meal. So I don't want to mess with this too much.

The only thing I sort of did that was maybe a little dumb was I just jumped into everything all at once cold turkey. So I don't know if it's the IF that's helping me, or the primal diet, or if it's something as simple as all I had to do was cut out grains.

Anyway, any thoughts from people with personal experience, or just overall knowledgeable people, would be appreciated.

To clarify: you're eating a paleo diet in an 8 hour feeding window every day? As long as you're getting adequate total calories, enough fat and enough protein you should be fine. Have you gained or lost weight? And what's wrong with carbs in your opinion?

Also, don't go round telling everyone how good you feel eating "paleo". Everyone hates that dick.

As someone that has recently started eating paleo this made me lol.

haha...sorry didn't know the etiquette!! I'm new to these forums. That makes sense though.

my point was though that it's working for me the way things are going in terms of how I feel throughout the day - so I am a bit reluctant to change in terms of adding in carbs as Martin from leangains suggests. But I'm worried I won't be able to pack on any muscle if I'm doing the super intense low rep workouts.

If I lost weight or not, I dunno. I don't have a scale tbh. I prob have lost a few pounds...it's only been a few weeks. I do notice ... hah...sorry...dunno how else to say it, but I am feeling g**d.

And as for why do I think carbs are bad? I dunno...I just have read a ton about being fat / ketone adapted and they are saying I have to cut pretty low on carbs.

Sorry I know this all might be basic...but like I said I'm new for me eating healthy was not eating my entire pizza in one football game, but spreading it over two. hah

Imo if your only lifting heavy, your carb level don't need to be very high. Just see how you feel. And I'd probably do some carb refeeds every 1-2weeks if you're eating super low carb.

If you're doing conditioning, met cons,
Cycling, any high intensity cardio type of exercise, definitely eat some tubers or other carb heavy stuff regularly. Tubers probably the best if trying to paleo.

Some comments:

1. You can gain muscle fine on a low carb diet. Many people have been doing this for many years. It's a bit controversial whether it's optimal or not, but you should be able to gain muscle fine, as long as your training and nutrition are adequate. If you're a true beginner, you'll gain muscle pretty much just by looking at the weight.

2. Carbs are fine. Delicious. Many high carb foods are incredibly nutritious. Nothing wrong with grains.

3. Why do you think eating what cavemen ate is optimal? Cutting out lots of refined and processed crap food is always a smart choice, but "paleo" for the sake of "paleo" is a load of crap.

Are sweet potatoes with butter paleo? Can't go wrong there.

Wtf is paleo anyways? Do you have to grow/forage/kill it yourself? I could respect that as a lifestyle choice even if suboptimal from a nutrition standpoint.

yes

a diet based on the types of foods presumed to have been eaten by early humans, consisting chiefly of meat, fish, vegetables, and fruit, and excluding dairy or grain products and processed food.

Do we have evidence that early humans did not eat grains? Or that they did not consume dairy? I'd have to imagine that dairy consumption was pervasive throughout prehistory.

According to wiki, the Paleolithic era is basically from the time humans started walking upright and using primitive stone tools until about 10,000 BCE. At what point along this 2 million year + timeline are we looking to recreate this diet? And why?

Again according to wiki, butter came around maybe 5-6k years ago, during the neolithic period. So I guess adherents to a neo diet would be clear for sweet potatoes and butter, but not paleo adherents.

thanks for all the replies

lol...that would be quite the life...would be cool if you could play poker on google glasses or something and hunt all day.

it's worth a read or a listen. I've been listening to Mark Sisson's podcasts..a little bit corny at times but interesting. His method is called Primal. It's basically his offshoot / take of the Paleo Diet and incorporates lifestyle advice (such as get sun, lift heavy things, move around a lot, etc).

I'm pretty sure grains have only been around recently (recently in terms of how long humans have been around). I think you need tools and stuff to harvest them - so it seems pretty obv early humans didn't have them?? (might be wrong about this..just a guess).

tbh you might be right...it just seems to make sense to me...the strongest humans survived, so try to mirror what they did to make themselves stronger, etc. Cutting on the refined and processed stuff is prob a huge huge portion of the paleo diet.

I think I jumped into a few too many things at once, so I can't say for certain if one is helping or all or what proportions or what. but you are prob right that just cleaning it up (from what I was at) is making a huge difference.

I was just hoping to keep progressing and don't want to lose what I gained. I am thinking of not really changing much from what I'm doing until I plateu...I dunno. Just hoping to get some input of people more experienced.

Either way, grain agriculture
Is unsustainable and if you look at nutrient density of grains/legumes there is really no reason to eat them.

A common misperception is touting their nutrient density in raw form, which is pretty good/high. The problem is grains cannot be eaten raw.

I agree with your point tho, paleo diet full of logical fallacies. The worst being that humans or other species can't find a new source of food and thrive on it.

Dairy is a gray area. From science point of view, depends on individuals gene expression. For most, eating full fat fermented dairy likely best.

Why wouldn't you mirror your behavior after the strongest humans of today, who are in all likelihood much much stronger?

Nah, the worst fallacy is the one it wears on its face - that things that are natural are inherently good, and conversely things that are unnatural are inherently bad.

I'm all for minimally processed food and foraging, gardening and hunting, but its a lifestyle decision. Don't pretend that it is somehow better for you than eating monsanto frankenfood and getting your exercise some other way.

any suggested readings for what you believe to be the strongest humans of today?

I don't see why it's a fallacy.

Monsato Frankenfood MIGHT be better than the natural equivalent - but it might take 2,000,000 years to figure that out. When if you look back in history, there are lessons to be learned there from those who survived through evolution.

Saying the Frankenfood is better is just going to have less data points than 2,000,000 years of evolution.

btw I really dunno what a frankenfood is..sounds awesome though haha...my point wasn't about them specifically...just in theory.

also I believe there isn't a good / bad and everything is on a spectrum. I've listened to all of Mark's (Primal guy) podcasts and I've heard him say similar.

Mark might say to get carbs fruits > wild rice > white rice > oatmeal > lollipops. So frankenfood is in there on the spectrum and if the advantages of frankenfood outweight the advantages of natural food (ease of preparation, taste, possibility of it actually being healthier, etc).

I dunno...there's hardcore people all over. I think part of it is psychological to sort of convince themselves they are the best and the most right and there are no other possibilities. (sounds like religion hah).

I don't think Mark sisson is one of those people...he seems like he would be all for option B if: A > B >>>>>>> C

Have a look at this. I don't remember what it says, but it's in my bookmarks.

http://chriskresser.com/rhr-what-sci...th-mat-lalonde

Carbs are awesome and cavemen sucked at life

Leangains is nice tho

sweet thanks for this! nice show...i'm subscribed to his podcasts.