I've started weight training for the first time since high school (8 years ago). I'm 6'5" and weigh 170lbs, and have been a bean pole like that my entire life. For a long time I kind of enjoyed my identity as the tall super skinny guy, but I'm tired of it now. I like the idea of seeing if I can make a positive change in something that's been who I am forever, instead of internalizing "that's who I am and anyone who doesn't like it can go **** themselves".

I found Starting Strength. I watched a ton of BroScienceLife youtube videos. A week ago, I did a demo day at the gym I previously joined to do cardio, just trying to do the excercises with minimal weight to figure out my starting place and get used to the fact that nobody there gives a **** about me so I should get over the uncomfortable feeling of being in a new environment. Other than the fact it appears there's no place to do deadlifts (small neighborhood gym) and one awkward interaction asking a super huge dude if I could use the squat rack he was doing curls in, everything went fine. I did my first two days from a standard-looking training plan, which looked like this (I moved some <45 numbers up to 45, which is why some look a little funky):

	#1 (8/30)	#2 (9/1)
Squat (warmup)	2x5 45	2x5 45
Squat (warmup)	1x5 45	1x5 45
Squat (warmup)	1x3 55	1x3 55
Squat (warmup)	1x2 65	1x3 75
Squat (work sets)	3x5 85	3x5 95
Bench (warmup)	2x5 45	------
Bench (warmup)	1x5 45	------
Bench (warmup)	1x3 55	------
Bench (warmup)	1x2 65	------
Bench (work sets)	3x5 75	------
Press (warmup)	------	2x5 45
Press (warmup)	------	1x5 45
Press (warmup)	------	1x3 45
Press (warmup)	------	1x2 45
Press (work sets)	------	3x5 45

I've enjoyed it so far. I've liked focusing on form rather than weights, and not caring that my max weight when doing form correctly is very low. And I like the idea that a lot of the gains could come without a ton of complexity when the starting point is being completely untrained. This graph from SS seems really exciting compared against other hobbies with higher barriers to entry and harsher learning curves:



My Goals:

1a. Make a substantial, lasting change in the way I look. Go from looking completely untrained and rail thin, to having more muscle. Be a dude who looks athletic with intermediate strength instead of a dude who looks skinny-fat with weak strength and doesn't care about it.
1b. Enjoy this as a new hobby that gives me more things to look forward to, both near-term (excited to see if I can lift a new amount today) and medium-term (excited to see if I put on more muscle/change the way I look).

My Questions:

1. Deadlifts. Power Cleans. I'm not worrying about these right now, one because the book said it's OK to hold off on these in the very early weeks for complete newbies, and two because there doesn't appear to be any space in my gym to properly do these. How important are they? Should I be finding subsitutes? Should I be finding a different, full-service gym?

2. Diet/Cardio. I'm aware of the school of thought with my body that says I should bulk, eat a ton, and not do a lot of cardio. I'm not very aware of the specifics of this advice, and how far I should go down the road of trying to optimally bulk given my situation/goals. Right now, I eat very healthily and get cardio exercise once or twice a week. My current plan is to focus on eating more when hungry and making sure to get a lot of protein, but to continue to do cardio (mostly tennis) 1-2x/week and not go too far out of my way to eat a ton more calories. Should I have a more rigorous approach to diet than this? Should I go the bulking/cutting route and stop cardio? My thought is that this seems too advanced/extreme given my starting point, but I know I don't really know what I'm talking about.

3. Additional exercises. My approach right now has been to keep it simple and get the basics of a SS-like workout routine down, and worry about adding more exercises later. How would you approach this? I know that curls and other stuff will likely provide visual gains that are part of my goals.

4. Based on what you've read so far, any other corrections/suggestions/advice? I'm very aware that this is a domain that is very new to me, and a lot of the progress will come to listening to others who know and understand it better.

Thanks for reading.

mers

1. Deadlifts are essential imo, you can usually just pull the bar out in front of the rack to deadlift with. Romanian deadlifts could work for a short while in a pinch. Switching out powercleans for barbell rows and/or chinups is a common recommendation here too.

2. 300-500 calorie surplus and >0.8g of protein per pound body mass is where you want to be aiming for. Monitor the scale and aim to hit a pound or a bit less of weight gain a week for a couple of months. Reassess from there.

3. Rip would say ignore the bicep curls, but they won't harm you much. But they also won't make that much of a difference to your physique when you're 6' 5" 170 - overall mass gain is required too.

4. Check out the beginners questions thread a page at a time, working backwards. The discussion is often repeated but there is some good info in an unorganised manner. Take videos of your worksets and post them in the form check thread, you'll get good advice (i'd pay particular attention to anything kidcolin and BPA have to say about technique). Say hello in the monthly LC thread. Check out a few of the other novice logs (Stuckinarutt for example) as some of the things that will come to you in the next few weeks have already been addressed there and will move you up the learning curve faster. Aquaint yourself with foam rolling and SMR, they're a good way to reduce soreness and improve mobility.

Welcome and good luck!

Nice OP, you have the right attitude.

1. Are DL's specifically forbidden? There's no platform in my current gym for them but I've been doing them near the squat rack and on one's said a thing. Unless you're lifting with steel plates on a concrete floor I'd just grab a barbell from somewhere and do them wherever you can and see if anyone cares. Any excersize is replaceable but the whole point of SS is to do basic powerlifting movements because they're such an effective way to train the whold body.

Power cleans can be quite fun and are a good way of adding explosiveness but unless you're training for a specific sportt you can switch them for DL's. If you can't DL you could do DB DL's but I could also see switching gyms at that point.

2. Brosience mostly, nothing wrong with some cardio. SS is a fantastic program to learn the basic lifts but the cardio hate is weird. Only if you really push yourself and do it several times/week and/or you're cutting weight will it start interfering with your lifting and then you might have to decide what's more important for you. For now, keep playing tennis.

You want to build some muscle to look better naked I presume. Right now your weights are (as they should be) very low and your improvement comes mostly in the form of neurological adaptions and learning technique. Point being, you wont see a big change in physique the first month or so and since your training won't provide that big of a stimulus for growth I'd just eat at maintenance or a slight surplus. Once your lifts start stalling start eating at a surplus, anything betweel 250-500 kcals/day is fine - more than that is most likely overkill in your situation. See Pummi's log for a reasonable approach for skinny people. P.S. Never, ever take dieting advide from Rippetoe. Edit: I mean you could afford eating at a bigger surplus since you're so skinny but I just don't see the point in gaining excess fat; there's a limit how fast you can build muscle and eating a 1k kcal surplus is overkill.

3. Generally the old BBing philosophy of high rep ranges -> hypertrophy, low rep ranges -> strength holds true. Right now I'd just focus on learning the big 3 lifts and once you're a bit more advanced you should add some hypertrophy stuff in since aesthetics seems to be your main goal. You might want to google Greyskull linear progression for a program that has a good mix of the basic lifts + added stuff for hypertrophy.

4. Take it from someone who didn't do it nearly enough when I started (5?) years ago: post videos in the form check thread to fix out issues asap. It took way, way longer for me to achieve passable technique because I was content once a lift "felt good" instead of getting feedback from more knowledgeable people.

GL

Thanks Aiden and Babalatexi. Really useful, especially about physique change expectations and moderate approach to diet/exercise.

Re: deadlifts. There just feels like no space at all. If I do it in front of the squat rack it's a tight squeeze and I'm completely blocking the main pathway through the gym. Given that feedback is they're pretty essential, I'll do the normal adult thing and ask someone working there if there's a good place to do them.

oh hi there, fellow anorexic,

Quality advice by Aidan and Babalatexi, agree w/ everything.

What kind of rack is it? A squat rack or a power cage?
If the latter, you could deadlift inside the cage, provided there's enough clearance for the bar on both sides of the cage.

Even if it's a squat rack, you might be able to deadlift in the same exact spot you'd squat in, provided there aren't safety bars that get in the way and/or can't be adjusted.

Anyway, no matter how cramped the gym is, I'm fairly positive you can find a spot where you can deadlift in.
After all, all you need is like a 3 feet x 8 feet strip of floor space.

Gl.

GL Mers, as Aidan mentioned my log is similar. I'm 6" shorter than you but otherwise I think we are the same body type so you might find some useful stuff in there. Do you have a goal weight you're trying to reach?

GL OP, as a formerly skinny(er) tall, I will be following your progress with interest. The advice ITT so far is very solid, as it usually is.

GL OP!

Aidan, why do you say DLs are 'essential'? I'm not disagreeing, just curious

OP is skinny as **** and needs to lift a lot of heavy things and eat a lot of food to remedy the situation

The deadlift will allow him to lift heavy things, plus as a tall he's likely anthropomorphically better suited to doing them than he is squatting

Plus he's likely pretty weak in his back and posterior chain

What he said.

No goal weight in mind. I can actually gain weight relatively easily these days, it's just not the good "filled out" kind of weight, so I've stayed super skinny. I have an idea of the physique I want, but no hard goals.

I really should have just made this my OP.

Thanks all for the kind words and good advice. Motivating.

Work Sets Log Update

	#1 (8/30)	#2 (9/1)	#3 (9/4)	#4 (9/6)
Squat	85	95	95	100
Bench	75	---	75	---
Press	---	45	---	50
Deadlift	---	---	---	135

Figured out the whole deadlift thing after watching someone else do it. The floor by the squat rack is carpet, but there are these mats you can pull out to set the weights on, and do them just outside the rack (as others suggested). Much more sensible space-wise on off-peak times, which is the only time I've seen someone do them. I was able to get some in today. 135 felt like a reasonable work set weight, maybe a slight stretch, but my form was not good and I had a hard time getting the movement right. Will have to keep practicing these.

Wasn't able to add weight to bench. Tried 80 but form broke down. Was annoyed by this but know not to get frustrated about first week stuff and focus on getting into the right habits. Press still feels awkward but second session was better than the first. Squats I feel good about.

Need to do a lot more reading about correct form and experiences from other logs here. But, happy with first full week. Happy with the "good sore" feeling all week. Happy to feel more comfortable in the gym and have some starting baseline for the four exercises.

If you're struggling with form at 135 DL move down to 115 and perfect it. Do what SS suggests and start with like 65 lbs and add 10lbs until your bar speed slows. Videoing yourself also helps and we can comment

are you keeping track of your macros at the moment? if not, do it. How much are you eating daily? I would think you would need at least 3000 cals/day, maybe 3500 or more in order to help with these lifts

Good call on 115. I thought 135 is kind of the minimum from a video I watched that said the bar has to start at a certain height, and the 35s are a bit smaller and there aren't bumper plates (I don't think). But if my form sucks I need to find a way to practice on lower weight.

I'm not keeping track of macros currently. Just been eating more in the general 300-500kcal range suggested and focusing on getting substantial protein, but no explicit counting. I can be more rigorous about this if it will be helpful to me to do so.

Take videos of your form and post them for review, but also so you have something you can refer to in between sets to see if there's anything blatant that needs to be adjusted.

you can rest your 115 DL on other plates, no?

as for counting, I think you'll find if you keep track very meticulously, at least for a week or two, you'll find exactly how much fat/carbs/protein you take in, and you'll be able to adjust accordingly.

For the first couple months of my SS, I ate about 3k/day (I was 153lbs at 5'11") to help with my lifts. I went from 135 DL to 250 and 120 Squat to over 220 lbs. I'm almost certain I wouldn't have been able to make this progress without eating this much (which was probably ~500 excess for me)

yo Mers, check out Rip teaching the DL here, well worth the watch imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWRTHOMq-n8

I kept track of diet this week. I only looked at calories/protein but can look at the rest. This is what my intake looked like (some guessing):



I would say this is reasonably representative except for an unusual amount of mexican food. I also had a protein burrito every work day this week (http://www.theproteinbar.com/) which is probably not typical. The random junk in there (pizza, beer, fries, cocktails) is probably about the frequency I typically consume those, maybe on the high side.

Totally open to changes here.

Work Sets Log Update

	#1 (8/30)	#2 (9/1)	#3 (9/4)	#4 (9/6)	#5 (9/8)	#6 (9/11)	#7 (9/13)
Squat	85	95	95	100	105	110	115
Bench	75	---	75	---	80	---	80
Press	---	45	---	50	---	50	---
Deadlift	---	---	---	135	---	---	---

Squats moving along fine.

Moved up 5lbs on bench. Enjoyed the feeling of being able to lift something I was physically incapable of lifting before, even if it's small and likely just due to being more familar with the exercise.

Didn't deadlift. I know I need to deadlift.

I enjoy the gym way, WAY more when it is not crowded. Had a ****ty session Thursday during peak hours where I felt rushed and uncomfortable. Going to try to go mostly during off hours. I've never been a schedule person but I'm going to start trying to do Monday night, Wednesday night, Saturday morning as the regular routine, and see if I like that.

I'm weighing in at 180. Some of this is normal (I generally fluctuate between 170 and 180). The diet above is calorie intake with a desk job and one hour of cardio (tennis) for the week. Not sure how much of a surplus that is. It's probably 300 more calories per day than what I usually eat. But it's not the 3k calories/day that has been suggested itt.

first thing:

you need to eat more, and get wayyyy more protein. You should aim for at LEAST 3000/day with 1g/lb bodyweight protein. For example, I'm 5'11" and 160lbs, eating 3000-3200 per day and getting 180-200g protein daily

I mean, your lifts are still in the baby stages so you won't see the importance of this yet, but now is a great time to get into a habbit of eating more. I would estimate once you hit ~150 squat and ~100 bench you will need that extra 1000+ cals. I got up to 225lb squat and 275lb DL recently before I had to reset and I guarantee I would have gotten nowhere close to that if I kept eating at my maintenance (which is around the 2000-2200 you're doing)

some tips for easy calories: rice cakes w/ peanut butter, cottage cheese w/ fruit, hard boiled eggs (make like a whole box every week and snack on a couple every morning) and milk.....LOTS AND LOTS of milk. I'm drinking at least 5 glasses (600 calories) of 2% milk per day

Gj progressing with the lifts.

But man, you eat too little. What is that, <2300 on avg?
And your protein's a bit low. I'd target 150 grams as the minimum.

Your maintenance is probably around 2700-ish at a lightly active 6'5" 180 lb'er.

Nothing wrong with eating around maintenance for now as you're just getting started and getting familiar with the lifts.

Once the weights get challenging, though - time to ramp up the calories.

Work Sets Log Update

	1.1	1.2	1.3	2.1	2.2	2.3	3.1	3.2	3.3	4.1
Squat	85	95	95	100	105	110	115	120	125	130
Bench	75	---	75	---	80	---	80	---	85	---
Press	---	45	---	50	---	50	---	50	---	55
Deadlift	---	---	---	135	---	---	---	---	---	135

Working on eating more and getting more consistent 150g+ protein.

Feel like I'm getting better with technique and form every workout. Still have to focus really intently on this. The long deadlift video helped. Still by far my most awkward lift, will start putting it in every other workout and keep it at 135 until I feel more comfortable.

good progress. this seems to be where I was at when I started - both in set weight and mentality. If the weight of DL doesn't bother you, and it's just your form, I would throw it in every workout until it gets difficult.

SIX WEEK SUMMARY:

Work Sets Log Update:

	1.1	1.2	1.3	2.1	2.2	2.3	3.1	3.2	3.3	4.1	4.2	4.3	5.1	5.2	5.3	6.1	6.2	6.3
Squat	85	95	95	100	105	110	115	120	125	130	135	140	145	145	115	115	125	125
Bench	75	---	75	---	80	---	80	---	85	---	90	---	95	---	95	---	100	---
Press	---	45	---	50	---	50	---	50	---	55	---	60	---	65	---	70	---	75
Deadlift	---	---	---	135	---	---	---	---	---	135	---	135	---	135	---	135	---	145

Graph:



Exercise Updates:

Squat: I dropped squats from 145 to 115 after realizing my form after weight increases had some serious problems. I was finishing tougher reps by leaning forward and pushing up with my toes as if I were jumping, which was killing my knees. I've done better since at making sure it's heel drive and my knees are staying out.

I also feel like I really haven't found the right bar location and body/back position. This link Sun Tzu posted in Stuck's log helped, but either because I have zero fat/muscle or I'm not doing it right, it still feels like the bar is crunching hard down on bone. Higher feels better with heavier weight except that it can lead to neck pain. I'm going to try to take a video to get more feedback here. I will try to get a video of every exercise.

Bench: Steady early progress.

Press: Steady early progress.

Deadlift: Started doing it every other workout. I feel a bit more comfortable with it, but getting position of every part of the body right still requires a lot of focus for me on every rep. The weight isn't really a limiting factor at this point in terms of lifting it off the ground, it's more doing so with the right form.

Goal Status:

I'm at 182lbs, and it's a better looking 182 than in the past when I've been at that weight. There have been some small but noticeable early physique changes. That's all I was really hoping for/expecting at this stage, so I'm happy with the aesthetic side of it. In six weeks I'd like to be at 188, and a way better-looking 188 than the last time I was there.

My body's still getting used to the load, going from zero to this. I've also kept up with 2x cardio/week, and I feel worn out a lot, especially when the sleep has been inconsistent. But upping calories and protein and keeping disciplined has helped. I am eating more and consistently much more protein than the previously posted food log.