I consider what I've been doing for over a year "normal programming".

Hmm.....maybe I could cut my deload from the end of this 5/3/1 cycle to when I add Smolov Jr short a few days and spread out the Smolov Jr cycle more.

Yeah, I was resisting the idea of Smolov Jr for quite a while b/c my shoulders don't seem to be awesome to begin with. And even Skeletor who was just doing Smolov Jr for bench had to shut it down on the last day I think and it seemed things were going really well for him. To be honest, the only reason I'm willing to try Smolov Jr for OHP is b/c of the rehab I did on my shoulder the last few months when I hurt it. I feel I can keep my rotator cuff muscles, pecs, and traps in check to help avoid injury.

Lol. I assume you're kidding but maybe not b/c you are a huge squat hero.

My squat right now is higher than all my other lifts comparatively.....by a ton when compared to my OHP. So F my squat imo for a while at least.

Yugo,

doing Smolov on even a slight deficit seems very silly. Higher chance of injuries (your recovery will be taxed), and gains will obviously be worse. Even if you aim to lower BF, I'd think eating at a slight surplus for the short period you're doing Smolov would be better.

I think instead of distinct intermediate programming when you have ****ty upper lifts after a while, just add tons of volume in any way possible.

Yugo- I'm going with option 3, and will agree with everyone that doing smolov jr on a cut isn't a good move.

I got hurt last time I did smolov jr, but it was for lolbenching. I'd def try and spread it over 4 weeks as zinna recommended. Might be able to get away with the 1st week with 4 sessions, then maybe go every other day after that?

All that being said, I been wanting to do smolov jr for press for a while, so I prob will go ahead and start it tmrw and try to go every other day with the presses and take 2 days when I feel I need to.

Obviously while RFL'ing?

Lol Busto starting Smolov Jr for OHP right away after reading that post. I actually thought you had done Smolov Jr for press already at some point. Hmmm.

Well, now I'm a bit convinced (from comments also in my log) that perhaps I really ought to just stick with 5/3/1 and change/add heavy upper body assistance work and maybe going full out Smolov Jr isn't necessary. Of course, I'll post whatever I come up with in here and then everyone can micro-manage the accessory stuff. Should be fun, .

Yugo --

Sounds like a (better) plan.

Regarding assistance stuff, I can't remember if you do chin-ups or pull-ups -- if you don't, mixing those in would probably help with your upper body lifts as well.

Ok, so the other approach would be 5/3/1 + heavier assistance work following the "simple strength template" in 5/3/1 2nd edition. It'd be similar to what I'm doing now except the main assistance lift would be heavier and follow a progression.

For those not familiar with 5/3/1, all %s are taken from 90% of a 1rm. So if it says 50% below it really means 45% of one's "true" 1rm.

Week 1:
5/3/1 main lift: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x?
Main assistance lift: 50%x10, 60%x10, 70%x10

Week 2:
5/3/1 main lift: 70%x3, 80%x3, 90%x?
Main assistance lift: 60%x8, 70%x8, 80%x6

Week 3:
5/3/1 main lift: 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x?
Main assistance lift: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5

Week 4: Deload

Here is the actual lifting I'd do each day:

Main: OHP
Main assistance: Close grip bench press
Other: Pullups/chins, DB rows (or face-pulls instead?), Bicep curls

Main: DL
Main assistance: Box squat
Other: Pull-throughs, Ab Wheel/plank

Main: Bench
Main assistance: Incline Press
Other: Pullups, DB rows, Tricep extensions

Main: LBBS
Main assistance: Staight leg DL (or RDL?)
Other: Split Squats, Ab Wheel/plank

I'd love to know of any additional thoughts. Given that I'm lacking at OHP most of all, should I add any upper body work to the lower body days? Or maybe go at an even highe weight/lower reps for my upper body assistance? Or even skip close grip bench press and do more OHPing on bench day?

Not a fan at all of the box squat choice, I'd go with FS. And I'd also say RDL > SLDL.

Agree with both of these.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of the incline press, maybe throw some weighted dips in there instead?

RDL vs. SLDL is no problem imo although Cha says my RDL is close to a SLDL anyway b/c I don't really seem to bend my knees too much to get the bar lower. But, I guess since this will be a main lift, I'll get to learn it a bit better. I don't plan on keeping my knees locked or anything either way though.

The reason for box squats is I feel more comfortable with them than Front Squats. I guess I could give FS another shot but holding the bar did feel pretty awkward.

Why FS instead of box squat? Like, what specific reasons or details?

Hmmmm. Well I tried a dip at Cha's house and my shoulders felt very strained trying one. If I want to do something heavy, I have a feeling my shoulders will get F'd up doing dips. Maybe if they're stronger I could try them. But for now, I really don't know if doing them is wise. I'd rather do 2342343 OHP sets on Smolov Jr - those don't make my shoulder feel like they're going to explode.

Fair enough.

You could always just add just the negative portion of some dips in at the end of your workout in order to build up to full ROM. Unless you are anatomically unable to do them (as I read in someone's log that apparently some people may be) they are a great exercise, and tend to build up relatively quickly.

Put up what I'm planning for comparison. As you can see I'm more concerned about the squat than you. And bro work/hyperbrophy/abs .

Honestly I still think a TM variant is better for pure strength, lol. But yeah, lower reps on your assistance might be a good idea. Or even look into the PL variants of 5/3/1. I dunno. Close grip bench is pretty sweet though I think.

Can't find where I was reading about it, but I'm under the impression box squats just don't do much for the raw lifter. I guess equipped lifters use them because of the way they're disengaged at the bottom? Also I know FS's are more quad dominant which should help the deadlift.

I believe the TM ebook had a discussion to this effect.

And all this time I thought you did Berkham's training thing and didn't even do 5/3/1, .

Pretty similar programs imo. Squats can go suck it for a couple cycles imo. I will go hard on them but if they don't move I won't worry at all. I gotta get my OHP and Bench moving northwards though.

So, again, my main thing is - does that look like enough volume/weight to move my OHP and bench? They gotta start moving imo.

What will help my OHP and bench though?

I care much less right now about squats and DLs since those have been keeping pace with 5/3/1 increases. In fact, my DL is way ahead of the standard increases.

Chins, pull-ups, pendlays, dips, close grip bench for accessory stuff, all with relatively high weight and low reps.

Heavy singles, doubles, triples, and a few heavy negatives (like ~10-20% more of your 1RM) for some of your bench work sets. I assume that rep scheme would work for press, but I've never really tried to 1RM out on press, so maybe someone else with a beastly press can comment.

EDIT: GTG pushups and chin-ups plus heavy tricep pressdowns for accessories.

Doesn't sound much like 5/3/1 assistance, re: low reps. Afaik he recommends 10+ reps on all assistance work besides the main one.

I've seen you post this before:

That is all in there. Except dips (which I've explained my reasoning on) and doing DB rows instead of pendlays.

Hmmm, I'd be willing to do this but I'm not sure how to work it into an existing template. It's a bad idea for me (imo) to just randomly do ****. I know one of the 5/3/1 powerlifting templates involves heavy singles or doubles or something I think. But I think that would be done instead of the heavy main assistance approach I outlined above.

How would you incorporate this into what I have above? Or are you saying to do this instead somehow?

I can GTG pushups...in fact, gonna start that right now (seriously this time) but I may have to take some days off if my shoulders don't feel great.

Already have chinups in my programming and heavy tricep extensions (not pressdowns - ripplebro tricep extensions seem better imo anyway).

I'm saying I don't think the high rep assistance work prescribed by 5/3/1 is appropriate for someone with his current upper body lifts that is trying to gain strength.

Yeah I wasn't disagreeing.

Yeah, it is mostly in there, but I think higher weight/lower rep work is necessarily going to be better for you than doing 5 sets of 10 at 50% of your 1RM or whatever it is (I'm not super familiar with 5/3/1).

I'm not the best person to ask regarding incorporating this stuff into the 5/3/1 framework, but the stress of heavy singles, doubles, and triples is what worked for me (and I think for some of the other relatively heavy benchers in here as well).

GTGing chins even if you already have them in your program isn't a horrible idea, assuming your shoulders can handle it and that your programming will eventually move towards weighted chins as you get more proficient at it.

Essentially the takehome message, as always, is lift more frequently with higher weights. Doing 3x10 tricep pressdowns is not going to do as much as 3x3 closegrip bench.

When I do my chins it's essentially GTG. I'll do 13 sets of 4 reps. If I try for more reps it's less GTG and more, how much can I kip in order to get past the 5 set, lol. Eventually will do weighted ones imo.

Well the main assistance lifts there following 5/3/1 where they get heavier throughout the cycle. That 3rd week is going to be plenty heavy imo.

For tricep extensions I already do sets of 5 reps. I had forgotten how much I used to love doing EZ curl bar tricep extension type stuff. For some reason, it's one of the few movements that just gets me *going*. I feel like a worldbeater, lol. And DLs to a degree, but those are so hard I feel like a pretty beat worldbeater.