Cool. Probably a good idea that I just did the 1 set since this is my first experience going through it. Thanks for the help.

It's so strange, because while I've spent the last 20 minutes reading through the book looking for where I recall him writing something to the effect of "I've always felt I've made the greatest gains when I had a little left in the tank", I simply can't find it.

As some of you may know, I'm currently doing 5/3/1, and I really like it thus far. With regards to the high volume assistance exercises (I'm doing the "Boring But Big" template with a couple little tweaks) - while he doesn't necessarily state any of this, my thoughts are that it works on a lot of levels. Doing 5 sets of light bench after I've already exhausted the bigger muscles
involved forces me to really concentrate on form and allows me to feel some of the smaller muscles involved. It also increases blood flow to the spent muscles which was the basis of some other program I read about a while back titled "Need and Feed" wherein you immediately follow a big exercise with some small, high rep exercise to feed your spent muscles (is it broscience? maybe, I'm certainly no doctor).

What I really HATED about the book were the testimonials. For the first 70 pages he's pounding into your head 'Slow Progression, SLOW PROGRESSION' - and then you get to the testimonials:

Let’s call this three cycles of 5/3/1 – September until December:
Bench: 154 to 200
Squat: 242 to 275
Deadlift: 300 to 375*
Military Press: 122 to 154

Another

”Three months of 5/3/1:
Bench: 185x7 to 225x5
Squat: 285x5 to 340x3
Deadlift: 360x2 to 420x2
Military: 180x1 to 225x4



Wtf? Am I missing something, or do all of these examples go against the whole system?

that happens when novices use any program. also, lol at the second testimonial's solid lie about pressing what he benches. if that's not a typo on your part you really have to question jimothy wendler putting that in the book.

Confirmed not a typo. The guys name was 'Christopher Sean' on Pg. 80 for those who have the book.

It just annoys me that he stresses slow and steady, and then puts out testimonials from guys who didn't use the program.

That said, I do enjoy it so far.

pretty sure they did use the program. the problem is that they didn't need it and therefore the gains are not typical especially for people who are actually at the point when linear progression no longer works.

Meh, seems like semantics. In my mind, the program is not just rep ranges, but also starting at 90% of a true 1RMs and progressing as prescribed. Whatever though - good for them.

i get your point. i just don't think many people can help but increase more than 5/10lb when they get like 10+ reps on the final set of a given cycle. but again, those people shouldn't even be doing the program. and i understand wendler's motivation for putting those testimonials in the book. even if the program's complexity is unneeded for weak newbs, those are the people who are most likely to actually be impressed by those lifts and pay for the book.

I'm probably never going to do this program, but does it seem like all the testimonials squat gains are relatively slow compared to dl/bench? The first testimonial you listed his bench went up by more poundage than his squat and his dl pretty much exploded.

Could be wrong but I was under the impression that 5/3/1 is essentially a full-body workout, done two times per week, split over 2 consecutive days. That's how I've been thinking about it, at least.

My assistance work isn't strictly to support that day's main lift per se... i.e. I have DB shoulder press on bench press day, leg curls on squat day, narrow-grip BP on press day, etc.

2, 3, or 4 days a week he talks about in the book. I found a spreadsheet online before reading his book by Bango/Jgood/TheDudeAbides, who requested permission from Wendler to post it. He requested they remove any assistance exercises and buy the book, he was ambivalent about the spreadsheet itself because he hadn't completed one yet.

What I took from Wendler's writing was he sees it more advantageous to be able to perform 8 reps at X, over 5 reps at X+10. Absolute higher gross weight numbers was not his program, but that overall strength comes from his 90% concept. and then pg 9 affirms it again But to each his own, as any training plan is a personal one, that doesn't necessarily have to conform to anothers goals/results.

I'm finishing up cycle #2 of 5/3/1 tomorrow. I'm very happy with my deadlift progress, the press seems to be coming along nicely, and bench seems to be moving as well. Front squat appears to be moving but it's really hard to gauge since sometimes(read: most times) on the balls to the wall sets I just can't breathe well enough with the bar in position to bang out more than 5 or 6 reps. I'm going to retest my max over the weekend and if it's not up to snuff(+20 pounds over starting point), I'm going to think about reworking things.

Current 5/3/1 schedule is Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri Press/DL/Bench/Squat

Thoughts on combining 5/3/1 and TM so that Mon is Press+assistance, Weds becomes squat recovery, Fri becomes squat intensity, and Tues and Thurs stay the same?

So I'm a bit lost on where I should go next, and I'm looking for any ideas:

Background - I'm a CFtard that realized I was weak and decided to get stronger. Had the good fortune of meeting up with a guy who does the nutrition stuff for WSB seminars (and has a 700+# DL) which turned into lifting with him and a few other guys for a while. Did SS for 3 months after that because I was lifting at my CF gym so I just wanted to do something simple while I gained weight. I'm just finished with SS and am looking for what to do next.

Possibly relevant stats:

5'9", 182#
Squat - 355
Bench - 245
DL - 385
Press -125 (That's not a typo )
Pullups (strict, no kipping bull****) - 16


Goals:

A simple way of putting it is that I'd like to be good at crossfit without doing all of the stupid **** that many people program (eg high rep box jumps, high rep kipping pullups, high rep oly lifts, murph, etc). I actually enjoy cf competitions (teams in particular), but there's lots of movements that I'd be more than happy to save for just competition prep and day of. This is really just a surrogate for saying I'd like to be stronger while slowly clawing my way back in terms of running/rowing/etc. In terms of specifics I'd like to be 500/400/300/150(?)/270/180 for DL/SQ/BP/SP/C+J/SN (how do I fix my awful press??) at a BW of 175-185.

So, where do I go from here? Forge ahead with some intermediate lifting program and deal with metcon stuff later? Or can I do a hybrid? I should point out that being in reasonable sport-playing shape (mostly soccer) is important to me. I've looked at stuff like OPT, but I don't know enough about programming to know if it's right for me. There's also a couple of CF/WSB hybrids I've considered now that I understand WSB training properly. CFFB also makes sense. I feel like I'm mostly looking within my known realm of cf, however, and don't know what I don't know in terms of outside stuff. Any other ideas?

I really like Texas Method, and I feel like you would have enough energy to do some additional stuff after recovery and intensity days.

Well hello once again intermediates. I thought I'd give this thread some revival with some questions about programming changes I'm thinking about making. Specifically, how to construct my switch to TM. Here's what I came up with, which is also posted in my log:

Monday (volume, main lifts at 90%):
Squat 5x5
Bench/Press 5x5
Rows 3x8

Wednesday (recovery, main lifts at 80%):
Squat 2x5
Press/Bench 2x5
Chin-ups 2x5

Friday (intensity, main lifts at 100%):
Squat 1x5
Bench/Press 1x5
Deadlift 1x5

One question is I'm not sure if the volume day will be enough. I was thinking about maybe adding bodyweight push-ups and chin-ups at the end, something along the lines of 3x15 and 3x8, assuming I'll be pretty tired for that... Is this a good idea or bad idea? Different assistance stuff recommended? Anything else look a little off?

Thanks in advance.

once you do this for a few weeks you'll realize how hard it is to go from deadlifting friday to squatting 5x5 on monday, so i don't think you should add anything yet.

Cool, thanks dude, I'll give this a go then as it is now.

My brother is probably gonna do a Smolov Jr cycle for squats. His shoulder is a bit screwed, so he can't do any pressing for 3-4 weeks anyway and thought he'd take the opportunity to punish himself with squats.

Anyways, the question is: the Smolov Jr program (e.g. http://wkak.net/SmolovFAQ.htm) gives a percentage of 1RM to use for calculating weights. I seem to recall people saying not starting too high is pretty key. Is it worth considering taking 10% of your actual 1RM and use that number instead?


ETA: prob not too relevant, but his squat isn't super high or anything - he failed at 3x5x315 (after one reset on SS).

I tested my 1rm (not estimated), then took 90% of that to calculate. I would not have enjoyed starting heavier.

Alright, thanks.

Also, why smolov jr instead of standard base mesocycle?

Mostly because I think he wants to stretch it out so he can train three times a week instead of four (which that smolov FAQ says is ok to do). Dunno if that's a good thing on std smolov?

Don't know if it would make a difference, but I don't really know what was going through those crazy russians' minds when they devised it.

Drugs?

I'm considering a modification on my TM program that I was hoping to get some opinions on. Here's what I initially decided on (this is my first week, so I've had 1 volume day and 1 recovery day so far):

Mon: 5x5 squat, 5x5 press, 3x8 rows
Wed: 2x5 squat, 2x5 press, 2x5 chins
Fri: 1x5 squat, 1x5 press, 1x5 deadlift

Press refers to alternating bp and ohp of course. Chins are weighted, I did +25 yesterday, my 3x5 maximum is in the +50-55 range.

Since I hate rows, love chins, and want to learn how to HC/PC, here's what I was thinking as a modification:

Mon: 5x5 squat, 5x5 press, 5x5 chins
Wed: 2x5 squat, 2x5 press, AxB hang cleans
Fri: 1x5 squat, 1x5 press, 1x5 deadlift

Basically:
1. Kill rows. I really hate them...
2. Bump chins up to volume day, make them really intense. I love chins...
3. Use my recovery day pull to learn to hang clean. It's gotta be light anyway, and this will allow me to learn with little risk.

General thoughts? If you think it's a good idea, what would you say for sets and reps for HC?

Thanks.