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Old 11-30-2010, 11:03 AM   #101
Soulman
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

It's in the FAQ part I think. I have the actual paper book and not the e-book, dunno if they're similar.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:30 PM   #102
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

What would you say would be a good range for doing some 1RM or 2RM in the power cleans given that I got 80kg/180lbsx3x8 in my last workout (volume day)?

I've never done a maximal effort on PC before so I don't have a scooby where I should start. I want to power clean 100kg as a main goal but I think I might be a touch too far away atm.

For intensity day, 3 or 4 sets of 1 reps is about right isnt it? Thanks.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:53 AM   #103
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

(Cross posted from my log)

Time to plan my cut and diet.

I've come up with the following for a TM setup (thanks to HalfSlant for inspiration and layout):




Goals are to maintain strength and lose body fat (and lose as little LBM as possible). Last time I cut, I basically did SS twice a week + some bro assistance on a separate day on the end. Worked fine for everything but the squat, which is why I want more volume for that this time around. Hopefully 4x5 is enough.

I plan to eat a bit above maintenance on volume day, way below maintenance on non-workout days and at maintenance on intensity day. On average about a 25% deficit. Will be doing IF. Obv with lots of protein.

Plan to diet for 8 weeks, then a 2 week diet break, then diet again until I'm down to 11ish% BF. Will be starting at ~20%. I'm really old, 35.

I briefly contemplated doing 5/3/1 in some form, but I don't think the high rep/low intensity assistance work is ideal for a cut.

Would appreciate any feedback.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:41 AM   #104
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

It might work, it might not. It seems like whatever recovery disparities exist between individuals are made greater when on a deficit. So there's really no way to make an educated guess about what works for you until you try it.

That said, nothing looks glaringly wrong. But I'd keep an open mind about making changes to the program early. Stuff like making it an 8 or 9 day rotation, or playing around with the front squat set/rep scheme could have a big impact.

And remember to get lots of sleep. Nobody ever gets enough sleep when training on a deficit.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:45 AM   #105
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Thanks. I'm definitely going to be aware of any problems that arise, like recovery being too impacted. From experience I know I'm not especially blessed in that department, prob from a combo of genetics + age.

I remember having problems doing sets of 5 on my last deficit, but believe I've developed better eating (read: more protein) and sleeping habits since then. Will sleep as much as I'm able to, my job/life is slightly stressful at times but generally I always get at least 7 and usually 8 hours. More than that is hard, I usually just wake up by myself. Old age, it sucks.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:16 PM   #106
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

I have a 5/3/1 related question. I have read the book.

re: Assistance/accessory work.

It would seem that most people break up the assistance work so that the 4 days a week are a split, as opposed to a "full-body" workout each day.

Monday: Squat + Squat assistance
Tuesday: Bench + Bench assistance
etc

My question is... why is it done this way? It would seem to me that after doing a heavy bench set, trying to do another chest/triceps movement would be tough after already pushing them pretty hard on the main lift.

I am much more used to doing something like SS where its Lower > Upper > Lower in one WO.

I am trying to set up a new routine and am having a hard time placing my accessory lifts.

I do understand the idea behind a split routine, where you really hit a certain body region hard, then have a whole week to recover, while you get the other body parts. Not sure if that applies here though.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:50 PM   #107
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Random narrowly-focused intermediate question, now that I see this has been bumped:

I'm a busy dude and have momentarily settled on an otherwise less than optimal Wed/Sat/Sun training schedule.

For the next 10 weeks or I'm gonna try:
Wed (or one of Tu/Wed/Th): 5x5 HBBS
Sat: Light/recovery 3x3 FS
Sun: HBBS Singles 1x6

I know the purpose of the FS day is to help recovery, but does it work with this schedule?
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:18 PM   #108
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

I guess the question to ask is, do you (personally) even need it for recovery? I skipped recovery day more than once, and did not notice a big impact. If anything, accidentally going too heavy on recovery day ended up hurting my intensity day 5rm attempt.

ETA: The one week I did do recovery day and intensity day back to back and it was a major failure... but lolsamplesize.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:00 PM   #109
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfSlant View Post
I have a 5/3/1 related question. I have read the book.

re: Assistance/accessory work.

It would seem that most people break up the assistance work so that the 4 days a week are a split, as opposed to a "full-body" workout each day.

Monday: Squat + Squat assistance
Tuesday: Bench + Bench assistance
etc

My question is... why is it done this way? It would seem to me that after doing a heavy bench set, trying to do another chest/triceps movement would be tough after already pushing them pretty hard on the main lift.

I am much more used to doing something like SS where its Lower > Upper > Lower in one WO.

I am trying to set up a new routine and am having a hard time placing my accessory lifts.

I do understand the idea behind a split routine, where you really hit a certain body region hard, then have a whole week to recover, while you get the other body parts. Not sure if that applies here though.
I read the book, Wendler seems to not want this to occur. For bench day, even though he writes to get better at benching, you should bench more, he advocates dips and chins, all 5 sets of 10 if possible. To get there though he doesn't want anyone to run out of gas in the mains, always leave one in the tank.

I am curious about responses to this as well.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:41 PM   #110
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

cres, I think you've got it the wrong way around (or maybe are just misinterpreting "pushing them pretty hard").

Wendler does suggest the final set should be really tough and while he says you shouldn't go "to failure", he says everything but that (page 23). In fact, I'm sure no where in his book he uses the expression "leave one in the tank", we've just kinda added that on around here because it's an easy way of saying "don't go to failure".

Additionally, he stresses that you should certainly not be doing so much assistance work that it is detracting from your main lifts (page 31/32).

I'm guessing that last point is part of the answer to HalfSlant's original question. If you are doing your assistance on the same day as your main, there is little chance that you are going to fry your delts/tris doing a billion dips/chins on Monday to the point where you can't bench on a Thursday.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:55 PM   #111
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

pg 69 in his Q&A was what I recalled.
Quote:
Question: Do you always take the last set to absolute failure?

Answer: No. Sometimes it’s best to do the required reps and move on, but rarely is a set done to absolute failure. In most cases, the set should be done close to failure, but with perhaps a rep or half of a rep left before failing. This is something you’ll have to learn for yourself.
I agree he goes back and forth on most of his program, but maintains his core philosophy to be strong. It leaves it up to the individual on if, or what they want, in their own physique.

Then with this comment,
Quote:
Question: Do you think it's better to be consistent and incremental with 5 pound advancements for all four lifts? Or do you think the 10 pound advancements on the squat and pull are better than 5 pounds for most lifters?

Answer: The smaller the jumps you can make, the better you’ll be in the long run. Unfortunately, this requires an ego check, which isn’t easy. Trust in the "small jump" system and reap the benefits long term. You can even make 2.5 pound jumps if you’d like. Remember to always think long term
I suppose how its received would depend on what it means. I see this as, don't blow your self up to get that PR posted, and then miss the next few weeks with an injury. The short term can destroy the long.
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:13 PM   #112
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Snitch View Post
cres, I think you've got it the wrong way around (or maybe are just misinterpreting "pushing them pretty hard").

Wendler does suggest the final set should be really tough and while he says you shouldn't go "to failure", he says everything but that (page 23). In fact, I'm sure no where in his book he uses the expression "leave one in the tank", we've just kinda added that on around here because it's an easy way of saying "don't go to failure".

Additionally, he stresses that you should certainly not be doing so much assistance work that it is detracting from your main lifts (page 31/32).
I think he defines failure as going so far as actually having your form break down, as opposed to just lacking the energy/wim to finish the last rep (what we commonly refer to as going to failure).


Quote:
I'm guessing that last point is part of the answer to HalfSlant's original question. If you are doing your assistance on the same day as your main, there is little chance that you are going to fry your delts/tris doing a billion dips/chins on Monday to the point where you can't bench on a Thursday.
Well, I am not worried so much about day to day fatigue, just fatigue from lift to lift in a single workout. I am only going to be doing 3 days/week Squat, Press, Deadlift.

But what I was curious about was like maybe doing:

Squat + Press assistance
Press + Dl assistance
Dl + Squat assistance (this day would suck)

or something like that.

Perhaps I am just expecting to have the assistance work be a larger component of the workout than it should be...
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:33 PM   #113
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla4Sale View Post
or split squats

or step ups
step ups with a barbell onto a high box is a seriously hard and helpful exercise imo
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:56 PM   #114
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

cres, when he says "better in the long run", I take that to be about making progress rather than injury prevention.

HS, Yes I think you are worrying too much about the assistance exercises. If you can't complete your 50 chins because your press was so hard, that is fine. If however you can't complete your press because two days earlier you did 50 chins and dips, that is bad.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:37 AM   #115
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Ok, that makes sense. I think ill just do it as prescribed, and see how it goes.
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:33 AM   #116
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

What would you guys suggest as set/rep scheme after I finish smolov for my squats. I am finishing up base mesocycle and getting ready for the switching phase. After I am finished the intense phase, should I go back to a 5x5 2 day week or is there something with high volume to continue with.
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:38 AM   #117
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Bunch of programs here:
http://www.mikesgym.org/programs/upl...rghatchsqt.xls
and here
http://www.joeskopec.com/programs.html
also 5/3/1, texas method both have decent volume, etc... you should find something good within all of that.

Sorry I don't know enough to recommend anything specific. Smolov seems nuts, literally anything else I can think of is going to be lower volume.
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Old 03-17-2011, 12:24 PM   #118
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Smolov so far has felt easy in the base cycle, even with working 60 hours a week on my feet in an intense environment. But I feel I recover extremely well, felt excellent after squatting following a 17 hour work day. After looking at them, might be better I make a hybrid program to keep volume up to keep progression going toward a 3x BW squat.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:03 PM   #119
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

I feel I am nearing the end of SS progression and am going to switch to a TM type program. Here is my plan, explanations below:

Monday
5 x 5 Squat
5 x 5 Bench/Press
Chins/Dips

Wednesday
5 x 2 Squat (80%)
5 x 3 Press/Bench (90% for bench)
1x5 DL

Friday
5 x 1 Squat
5 x 1 Bench/Press
Power Snatch (just learning) or assistance exercises

I know DLs usually go on M or F workouts, but I have already experienced issues with doing heavy squats and heavy DLs on the same day. I switched my DL day squats to a lighter load to allow me to be able to complete DLs in my bastardized SS program. I am thinking doing DLs on Wednesdays will be ok, any issues with that? I'm not really feeling any issues with recovery between the workouts now, so I'm hoping that will cary over to this programming.

Also, how do I figure out what weights to start each lift with? I figure I will just start my DLs with the next step for me since they are still going to be 1 x 5, but what about for Squats and Bench/Press for 5x5 and 5 x 1? If you haven't seen my log, I have been doing 5 x 3 for these lifts (SS). Should I start slightly higher for the 5 x 1 days and slightly lower for the 5 x 5 days? If so, how much higher/lower? If not, what should I do?

I'm thinking of starting this up in the next couple weeks, so I do have time to iron things out.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:00 PM   #120
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Your first 1x5 intensity day should be the same weight you are using now for 5x3 (assuming it is pretty hard).

Your 5x5 day will always depend on your 1x5 weight, use 80%, or 85% of that 5RM.

Both of these will feel pretty easy at first, but trust me, it will not stay that way for long.

I think you are putting too much on your recovery day, specifically the extra set of bench/press and the extra 10% weight. This is only my opinion based on my own crappy experience with bench/press on TM.

Also DL on recovery day, might be ok at first, but just pay attention to it. If you start failing your squat on friday, you might need to move it.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:14 PM   #121
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfSlant View Post
Your first 1x5 intensity day should be the same weight you are using now for 5x3 (assuming it is pretty hard).

Your 5x5 day will always depend on your 1x5 weight, use 80%, or 85% of that 5RM.

Both of these will feel pretty easy at first, but trust me, it will not stay that way for long.

I think you are putting too much on your recovery day, specifically the extra set of bench/press and the extra 10% weight. This is only my opinion based on my own crappy experience with bench/press on TM.

Also DL on recovery day, might be ok at first, but just pay attention to it. If you start failing your squat on friday, you might need to move it.
Thanks for the input. So the extra 10% means I should be doing 80% of what I did? I have no problem with that, just thought I read somewhere that 90% would be used. Will switch it to 80%
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:31 PM   #122
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

AFAIK its personal preference how much weight you use. In my experience, recovery day was a "less is more" day.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:58 PM   #123
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Cool. Looks like it will be time to just try things out and see how I feel.
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Old 04-08-2011, 08:53 AM   #124
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

Question (xpost from my log): This was my first week on TM. Plan was to do 350 for squats today, so that is what I did. Felt like I short changed myself though. 350 felt really easy and think I could have gone 365+ for 5 x 1. I didn't do that because I didn't want to progress too quickly and cause myself to stall early in the program. Next Friday the plan is to go for 355. If this happens again, should I just keep increasing it until I think I'm near my max 5 x 1 for that week or just cut it at 355? I did a bunch of accessory stuff today because I felt like I had a bunch of energy in reserve and wanted to try and do something to ease my mind that I didn't totally waste my workout. Thoughts?
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:13 AM   #125
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Re: Intermediate programming questions thread.

What I used to do was, if I still felt good after my heavy set, I would just do another heavy set at the same weight. The only problem you have to contend with is being able to recover completely before volume day comes around again.
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