Re point 1: I understand what you're getting at, but if you're suffering from CNS burnout or just general fatigue that's no reason to abandon squats or deads (or a non-specific lower body day where you alternate movements). This seems like it would boil down to a programming problem, be it performing too much volume, or going too heavy without proper rest intervals.

Re point 2: Yea, and the point at which you take too long to recover from a stimulus to expect any supercompensation is called injury. You should have room for plenty of rest in the course of a week.

I hate that threads like this die out so quickly so I'm bumping it for no reason

its f brutal too, end up with jerks being difficult that you would normally throw to the moon.

Q1. If I'm about to stall on SS because 2.5kg increases in the squat are too much, but don't want to move to TM just yet, how do I program each workout? I was thinking either

A Day: Heavy (Squat, Bench, Deadlift)
B Day: Light (Front Squat, Press, Clean)

or

A Day: Medium (Squat, Press, Clean)
B Day: Medium (Front Squat, Bench, Deadlift)

Then just alternating each work out every other day.

I recommend the Practical Programming Advanced Novice routine.

I am running some bastardized combination of 5/3/1 and TM but it's actually working decently well, though I'm on a wacky schedule because it's the summer and I like to play golf 4x/week.

Day 1-

Volume Squats
Push Press 5/3/1
Whatever random accessory work I feel like doing (usually nothing major b/c I'm so wiped)

Day 2-

Deadlift 5/3/1
Accessory work

Day 3-

Bench 5/3/1
Acccessory work (always heavy DB rows, triceps work, then something else)

Day 4-

Cleans
Squat- Work up to heavy single(s)
Front Squat- up to heavy set of 5

I've been thrown off this schedule because I've been busy the last few weeks, but in general it's worked decently well.

How do those days fit into a week? Specifically between days 1 and 2 since I'm smoked for days after volume squats and couldn't imagine pulling very heavy.

My schedule of late has been

Tues-

Volume Squats
Push Press
Chin Ups

Thursday-

Deadlift 5/3/1
Accessory

Friday-

Bench 5/3/1
Accessory

Sunday-

Cleans
Squats (back and front)

I've had to mix this up because I've been missing lots of days b/c of golf and school. I should probably add cleans to a different day.

This works fine for me.

Does anyone have any experience doing max effort work multiple times a week on the same muscle group? Like working up to a max set of 5 or 3 on squats one day and then coming back and doing the same for deadlifts a few days later? I've been following DeFranco's modified westside method which recommends one max effort lower and one upper each week, but this summer I wanted to DL and squat every week so I added an extra lower day. I ended up straining my hamstring, so I'm trying to decide if it was due to the extra volume or not. What are your guys' thoughts? Is this too much work each week?

Depends. You'll get a handle for your work capacity as time wears on.

I (kinda) did this today and had a few questions.

1) When you talk about doing them until failure, do you mean within a set or once your sets fail(ie. is 1 set "press to failure, push press to failure, jerks to failure" and then repeat, or do you do however many sets of presses you can do, followed by however many sets of push presses you can do, followed by however many sets of jerks you can do)

2) Do you alter the weight at all or keep the weight the same(ie. possibly raising the weight when you start the push press)?

3) When doing this is it useful to keep the form strict for the push-presses or is it reasonable to slowly transition the push-presses into jerks.

When I say I kinda did this during today's workout, I went into the gym without really knowing exactly what the difference between the push press or the jerk is and more or less just started out by push-pressing and rather than consciously switching to jerks once they got difficult, just started to dip down more. Is this a big mistake?

4) How much volume would you typically recommend. I ended up doing 3 sets of presses, followed by 3 sets of my push press/jerk hybrid but ended far before failure. How many sets would you typically recommend?

5) When doing jerks should I be landing with split legs? I currently don't, but if this is recommended are there any videos you recommend for learning how to do this properly?

Thats it for now, I'll try to bump this thread as often as possible

The way I "implemented" G4S's advice was the following:

I had to do 1 set of 5 press on my intensity day. I could only do 1 rep, so I did a set of 4 push press right after failing my set of strict press.

Is that a good thing to do? It seemed to helped me succeed my 5*5 (strict press) on the next volume day.

1) I mean within the same set, but the other way would also work. It would just be a lot more volume.

2) All in the same set, obv the weight stays the same and you are never setting the bar down, just transitioning from one movement to the next.

3) Just realize that they are different lifts (pp vs jerk), but short of that what you did is ok imo.

4) I'm not a huge volume guy. Done all in the same set, maybe three sets. Done separately, maybe six sets (2, 2, 2).

5) What kind of jerk you perform is totally up to you. Split jerk, Push jerk, Squat jerk, Power jerk, Splat jerk, etc...which ever you are the most comfortable with.

Again, as long as you are realizing that they are different (strict vs. pp), i have no problem with that.

It was suggested after a bad intensity set this week that I reset to fix a particular issue. I've been doing this tm template w current #s

mon
5x5squat(300)
5x5bench(240)
sometimes pc's up to 185

wed
3x3 squat/fs 280/200
3x3 pres. 135
ghr 5x10
chins 3/5 sets bw

Friday
squat 1x5(330) this was where I had the issue
bench 5x2 260
dl did 4x335 week prior and 2x340

I want to improve on my dl more than anything tbh.
I am wondering do I reset my volume day and my intensity wo's?
How much should I reset ? I'd a small reset a bad idea? Like 10 lbs..
How can I improve my dl?
Thoughts on this routine very much appreciated.

I need advice on what to do for programming. I've been doing a variant of PPAN with powercleans on days 1 and 3 instead of chins/pullups as main lifts. I also had to **** with it to take out the bench press. I'm doing press sessions on days 1 and 3, and jerks on day 2. My press is really weak compared to my bench and I'd like to focus on it for a few months. Yeah I know, YNDTP and all that.
My squat stalled today at 280, I got 5,3,3. I really don't think I'm ready for intermediate programming. I'm no longer able to make 10lb jumps each week (two 5lb jumps, one each squat session). Is it worth it to keep making 7.5 or even just 5lb jumps every week or should I just move on? The way I see it, even though that's the same amount you're jumping on texas method each week, the total tonnage moved doing 5lb jumps per week on ppan is still much larger than on texas method.

The other reason I don't want to move on to tm is because my presses, pulls, jerks are going swimmingly. Could I move just my squat to texas method and nothing else? It would look like this:
Day 1
Squat 5x5
Press 5x3
Powerclean 3x5

Day 2
Recovery Squat (FS 3x3 or 1 medium-heavy single)
Jerk 3x5
Some type of pulling movement, powerclean, snatch pull, barbell rows, but nothing heavy enough to disrupt day3 squat.

Day 3
Squat 5rm
Press 5x3
Powerclean up to 1rm as part of deadlift warmup then 5rm deadlift.

I'm 5'11 and 202-207. I don't plan on making any adjustments until I've reset once more.

Not speaking from experience but Rip has stated multiple times that this is fine.

When was your last deload/reset on the squat? I wouldn't worry about not being able to do 10lb jumps any more, but what's more important is how you've been progressing. 5/3/3 is pretty dismal, but did you do 5/5/5 on the previous weight? When you go in next time, will you hit at least 5/5/3-4? If you go one more time and still can't get 5/5/5, give it a reset and switch to TM once you stall again.

Has anyone tried stretching out the Texas Method into longer than 1 week blocks? I never felt super fatigued on it in the past when I did weekly blocks, but recently I've only been lifting every 3-4 days and I've been able to improve my squat despite being on a caloric deficit.

I'm thinking something like:
Day 1- Volume Lower
Day 2- Volume Upper
Day 3- Rest
Day 4- Recovery/Dynamic
Day 5- Rest
Day 6- Rest
Day 7- Max Effort
Day 8- Rest
Day 9- Rest

may work better for the purpose of getting stronger without getting too much fatter.

@Khalyn: Don't reset volume day if you are not failing it / having bad form. However, if you can lift 300 with good form, then doing barely more than that on intensity day with questionable form raises some questions. Maybe your recovery day is too heavy. Why is your deadlift not improving on its own? My problem was I was too tired after squatting heavy, that having deadlift at the end of the WO was a real chore. My current template is broken into 2 weeks, where week 1 I focus on squat, and week 2 I make progress on DL. I am going to increase my DL by 10lbs this week and feel pretty confident I will get it.

@Evoken: Doing TM just for squats looks like a good idea. Also, WRT to day 2 "pulling movement" I have liked doing 3x8 Pendlay Rows so far.

@Doug: I did a "standard" TM template on a cut for 1.5 months. My progression was about half as fast as it should have been, but was not terrible. As I mentioned before, now I am doing a routine that is even more spread out (over 2 weeks). I am eating now though, but it might be worth thinking about just making each WO a little lighter, instead of adding more rest days.

My two lifting partners are about to graduate from SS, and I don't have time to do tons of research to determine what the best program would be for them. I see a lot of people talking about Texas Method and 5/3/1, but don't fully understand the programs as of yet, or why one might be better than the other for a given person.

Guy #1 is 27, 6'3 242lbs. His SS worksets are up to 275 for squat, 245 for bench, 310 for DL, 140 for OHP, 190 for PCs. Goals are 1) to get stronger, 2) to lose fat

Guy #2 is 27, 5'8 173lbs. His SS worksets are up to 260 for squat, 175 for bench, 275 for DL, 120 for OHP, 145 for PCs. Goals are 1) to lose fat 2) to get stronger. He also plays rec sports 3-4 times per week.

Both guys are attempting to eat at a deficit, though they both cheat a lot and neither tracks their calories precisely. Obviously if they were consistently eating below maintenance the "get stronger" goal would be tough or impossible, but just read that as "get stronger or lose as little strength as possible".

Right now we work out MWF, and that schedule works very well for us. We'd like to keep it. We all like the core SS exercises (except PCs) and would like to stick to them.

Thoughts?

How do you figure they are ready to graduate? Are they failing workouts often? Intermediate programming is going to be a lot slower.

Also, why is guy #2 eating at a deficit? He weighs less than me at 2" taller :\

It's more about recovery; all three of us are having more and more trouble being able to squat heavy 3X per week.

Guy #2 has been failing regularly; he's re-set on bench and press several times, re-set once on PCs, and failed reps here and there with squats and DLs.

Guy #1 hadn't failed anything until this past week, but appears to be very close to maxed on all his lifts. With him it's more about a need for some variety; he only did SS because the other two of us were going to be doing it, and he's itching to do something different. He's had great success in the past with a specific hypertrophy-based workout he got from his football S&C coach (he benched 225X23 at about the same weight he's at now).

Re Guy #2's deficit, he's dropped about 65 pounds over the last year, and his #1 focus is getting rid of his love handles. He's a soccer player, and doesn't want to get too much bigger than he is now:

benching 225x23 in the past and now benching 175 for 3x5 doesn't compute. i know SS doesn't work very well for the bench for some people but he's doing something wrong.

225X23 was Guy #1, who's doing 245 for 3X5.