Evo,
your hatred of Rip and S&F is not without merit, but imo tends to be a bit overstated. For example, this is a quote from Rip's Practical Programming:

Rip is a bit disingenuous here though:

Frequently though, coaches and trainers place all their athletes on hypertrophy cycles under the assumption that all hypertrophy is the same and that the newly-big muscles these cycles produce will automatically be strong and powerful. This is not the case.

Actually, it is the case. All else being equal, a bigger muscle is stronger than a smaller muscle. EV for instance has a weak overhead press despite having some substantial shoulder and triceps development. That does not mean that these muscles are weak. It means that he doesn't know how to overhead press. I may be better at pressing something from shoulder level to lockout than he is, but by any other measure of shoulder strength, EV is much stronger than I am. And he looks better.

If you took someone who had a very technically profficient OHP (say kidcolin) and increased their 5rm by 10 lbs through strength/power work, Rip would have you believe that the resulting "athlete" would somehow be superior to the version that did hypertrophy focused work for awhile, packed on some mass to his shoulders and upper back, then spent a little while refocusing on heavy OHP work and wound up putting 10 lbs on their previous PR.

Rip deserves the hate because he doesn't push lifters away from his dogma soon enough in their careers (if at all, see weightlifting). Rip's advice is very very good for all new lifters. It's passable for early stage intermediates. Beyond that stage, pretty much regardless of your goals, it's time to move on to someone else. But Rip doesn't like to admit that a significant shift in methodology can be necessary after someone has only been training for a year or two.

I like most of the post, but this part I think I disagree with:

I don't think he would say this at all. If you remove the bolded, however, then I think that's what he would say. He wants people to be strong. If strength is equal then there's no way he'd say the KC (in your example) is better.

DF,
I believe Rip would say that the guy who focused on hypertrophy would have spent longer time achieving said strength, thus it was less optimal if strength is the goal. He might also have worded the part about "newly-big muscles being strong/powerful" badly, given his views on the continuum of rep ranges (i.e. strength is still developed in higher rep schemes just at a slower rate). That might be a little too generous towards him though.

yeah

Fair enough. I still think Rip would prefer the power trainee due to some belief that the power trainee can always put on size to catch up to the hypertrophy trainee, but I don't have anything to support that.

So what if we remove the strength increase component and switch it to LBM. Instead of 10 lbs added to their OHP it is 10 lbs of LBM added to their upper body. We can assume that Rip has a strong preference towards the strength/power trainee based on his statement "hypertrophy resulting from bodybuilding training is physiologically and functionally different from the hypertrophy resulting from maximal strength or power training."

But what about when it takes a year to achieve that hypertrophy from strength/power training and 6 months to achieve it with a hypertrophy targeted training? Who do we think Rip would say is in a better position compared to where they started?

I take issue with this primarily and for 2 reasons.

1.) No, it really isn't an advantage for the average guy who just wants to look better, get healthier, and be in better overall shape. It's only an advantage for the strength athlete hobbyist/competitive powerlifter or someone involved in a power sport like vball/100m.
2.) Training for power as opposed to hypertrophy has a hidden cost that Rip likes to ignore: The wear and tear is empirically much worse.

Well after ranting about how horrible power/strength training is compared to brotard training, I did some power/strength training.

Clean+Jerk: 200x1+3x1, 200x3+3x3, first set I just spaced out.
Snatch: 185x3x2 too much forearm pain, forgot ibuprofen. I will still bump this to 190 next workout. 1st set was comfortable, 2nd set was an abortion but only because of forearm pain.
HBBS: 315x5x2, 315x8 limit, all belted. Going to either 5lb jump or hard reset, I'll see how my knees and ankles feel next week. This week they felt awful by the time I got to this. I'm probably 4-6 weeks away from all time sq/dl strength!!

I actually missed two cleans and redid them immediately and got them. Surprising. I guess I just know instinctively that I'm going to have more trouble in the jerk down the road that I'm not really paying attention on cleans. I re-did my jerk rack to what freddy does with bar in fingertips instead of palms. This completely alleviated my lat pain in front rack! yay!! I'm definitely still figuring things out in the jerk. It's all brand new stuff. In the clean I just need to re-figure things out, and my snatch is perfection maintain. Vids coming tomorrow, got squats, 1 set of snatches, and a few sets of cjs.

I need to commit to filming on every lower day. Doesn't need to be the whole workout, but just something so I can track technique and pick out what flaws need to be worked on. If I ever forget, I will punish myself by going to the HC thread and writing a spirited defense of an article posted on startingstrength.com, beginning with this travesty: http://startingstrength.com/index.ph...s#.U_6mBfldV2A
Some of the new guys around here might not have seen it before.

"The amazing thing is that once you’ve gotten big and strong, then cutting any excess bodyfat is far easier than getting big and strong was. Virtually every guy from the beginning of this article who told stories about the ridiculous amount of food he ate to gain weight, had, after accomplishing that goal, cut back down to 10% bodyfat or lower, and usually in less than 3 months. Only now, the lifters are 240 pounds with single digit bodyfat instead of 160 pounds with single digit bodyfat. Cutting the bodyfat is easy with the metabolic increase gained from 60 additional pounds of muscle."

hahahahaha rofl lol rofl facking lol.

And then when somebody points out that forcefeeding and eating irresponsibly might have different results when on vs on steroids, RIP DELETES HIS THREAD:
http://startingstrength.com/resource.../t-35192.html?

gotta love this line from one of Rip's concubines: "Steroids are not even helpful until a certain level of advancement."

Gfg

k thremp

Yeah I remember Thremp busting out the "steroids dont' work for novices" line and halfway believing him when I was new here. Let's not forget Rip himself has said Gomad>Steroids LOL.

I was calling you thremp. You're raging at windmills there Quixote.

I just read through this thread and it is awesome. Never stop posting.

sup bro

My point was that even Rip acknowledges that higher rep work is better if hypertrophy is your primary goal, i.e. not what you said in your (I would guess hyperbolic) quote.

That article quote is amazing. lol at cutting to single digit BF being easier than getting fat and getting stronger. lol at the massive metabolic advantage. just lol.

ETA: ok, after reading part of the article I retract the "getting fat is easier" statement. Dude literally forced food down his gullet over an extended period of time. That's hard work. About as hard as thremp's favorite analogy of ball punching.

Evo, any advice? Being in MA for this is apparently not ideal as some lab testing networks can't operate here due to medical billing laws, but labcorp seems to be fine so I'm looking at that route.

Also since it sounds like you ran through the anti-aging route, (if you don't mind my asking) what are your monthly costs? I'm a mega tard when it comes to doctors (don't have a PCP or even a dentist), but some people online are saying get your test, go to a urologist, say you have ED, and avoid the whole anti-aging circle which is more expensive.

They used to have comprehensive male and female hormone panels on the labcorp site but now I can't find them

My monthly costs are 0 still. The place I went to only charged for initial consultation, which my work insurance didn't cover but I paid for with money leftover in an HSA I built up at another job. I changed insurance when I moved back to AZ and it's covering everything. I'm a megatard when it comes to docs too, can a urologist even write you a prescription for hrt? Seems like if you go that route you might end up with a cialis script instead.

Weren't you confined to a slingshot for shoulder related problems?

Only for a month or two. Hardly chronic.

Granted my bench is pretty lol anyway.

Sooo do you ever need to get a new prescription or anything like that? Because if you **** shuts down, and you can't get the stuff, you are then no longer a man...

Wellp I guess you and freddie are the exceptions. There's probably more, maybe I was exaggerating saying that you're guaranteed to develop chronic injuries. Supermidgets.

Nope.

Yesterday's video(processing):



I must not look like I'm concentrating or anything because fatass dyels walk in front of me between snatches like they couldn't possibly be disrupting anything. Back in the day I wasn't afraid to tell these people off rudely.

Evo,

Sounds like low T to me; maybe see a urologist?

Wow so you basically have a piece of paper that says for the rest of your life any doctor has to give you T?

Can you scan it?

Video of you flipping out on people, please. Bonus points if you launch a loaded bar at someone.

Arms+Delts

BB curl//Rope pushdown//Cable side raise: 75x26,11,9,8,7//90x21,11,10,8,9//30x10x5
db incline curl//db skullcrusher//db side raise: 30sx10x5//30sx10x5//15sx10x5
Straight bar pushdown//cable curl//cable upright row: 100 5 sets to failure//70 5 sets failure//60x10x5

Cardio: 14 minutes level 16 like 60 cals burned and I gave up b/c I was hungry af.

Yay I finally moved up to 30s on db incline curl+skullcrusher! Didn't need any rest between sets but I was definitely more tapped out on the curls.

Fack... this is 45 sets bros! I decided that cable side raises and upright rows are definitely movements that shouldn't be taken to failure, gotta focus on dat mind muscle connextion and ****. + rotator cuff vulnerability and I think both movements recruit poorly unless form is 100% strict.. like some cheat curls still recruit lots of biceps, but if you cheat on side raises or upright rows even a little bit you don't the side delt working like it should.

Thoughts on using "off days" for improving mind muscle connection?

Sometimes I do some lighter band laterals and pull aparts on off days (5 slow sets of 20), trying to keep my delts primed for being the primary movers on vertical pushing movements later in the week.

No idea if it does anything.

Sounds totally FPS, but could be a fun way to do some active recovery and get a pump.