Wow. Mass monster.

We await realb's decision. Will he take Evoken's hand and ask him to leave the DYELs behind? Evoken's ascension to IEL mountain seems inevitable.

None of those people are even close to natural. I could drop my OTC oral (dymethazine) ~4 weeks out and come up clean on my HRT pretty easily. I'd beat the test and be able to claim natural if it was urine only. I would fail a polygraph, however I think people have ways of gaming those too.

Assuming HRT+OTC orals only I'm at least 2-3 years from that. If I take the plunge later this year and go supraphysiological levels of creatine I could be stage ready in the light heavy class in a year. Probably I'd be 185-190 at that bf and not all the way up to 198. I'd have to drop oly 2x/wk and do proper bbing leg workouts though to actually compete in bbing and I don't know if I have the discipline to diet from 10%->6% which is surely a lot harder than 14->10%.

Do it! It's super easy, just go get a bloodtest at labcorp (you order it online and then drive to the nearest one and they take your blood and send the results wherever you choose), take said lab test to an anti aging clinic, and get an HRT script. Don't worry, you're a male in a modern developed country. You have low testosterone. The fact that you ever leveraged your IQ against others to make money in poker makes it even more likely you have low T. If your blood test comes up normal for your age I will eat my friggin shoe.

HRT alone doesn't add as much strength as you would expect, but it definitely does help with other aspects of your life. What really gets the results are all of the orals you can buy legally over the counter. The problem is you can't use them without experiencing huge ups and downs in your natural testosterone levels since they shut down your natural production and people are generally averse to staying on them since after 6-8 weeks they tend to shut down libido as well. The HRT is important because it makes your natural production irrelevant and puts you at a baseline no matter what orals you take or for how long.

If you're on HRT, orals have about as many side effects as having a few beers after work. Depending on what you're using you'll probably be doing less damage to your liver than the average greek life member does at a given 4 year college. High blood pressure can be a concern for some, but since I have clinically low BP even with orals I'm in the clear in that regard. I'm also noticing the longer I'm on, the better I tolerate side effects like back pumps, headaches, or heartburn, even if I take breaks. The first few times I used dymethazine I thought my lower back would friggin explode and all of my muscles would cramp up like crazy at night. Now it barely registers.

wow, your stack is way less than I assumed.

150mg/wk of TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE since I got my script in March (might as well stop beating around the bush) and neverending 30mg/day dymethazine since May. Gonna bump that to 45 soon. I was on TRT well before march but it was "self medication" and the amounts varied a bit more and I messed around with different esters.

ive heard that people use insulin as part of there stacks. am i confusing this with igf 1? if not and they do use insulin, what does it do that makes it worthwhile to add to a stack like that

jams a lot of glucose and amino acids into muscle tissue, increases gainz and recovery by upregulating protein synthesis

People use both. IGF1-LR3 is a peptide growth factor which is legal for purchase. gh15 considers it some kind of holy grail of simultaneous fat burning and muscle building. It's really expensive and really often faked. Not worth it as you'll most likely just be getting ghrp2-6 but for 10x the price.

People use insulin too. You can go buy Humalin R, a fast acting insulin, from your walmart pharmacy over the counter for $24 right now no questions asked no prescription. It's the one PED which is kind of dangerous and can legitly kill you on accident so I'm not planning on using it.

It's really good for just adding mass+strength and improving recovery but tends to add a lot of fat and bloat as well. All the experts seem to advise against using it unless you're also using GH because the two pair well to offset the fat gain from insulin. I guess if you're a SHW strength athlete you could use insulin solo.

i only ask cuz im a type 1 diabetic and wanted to see if i was inadvertently getting any help out from the insulin.

You're deficient in insulin, so probably not. Unless you up the dose*.

*I am not a doctor, this is not medical advice.

Nonstop orals you say

That picture is very impressive. I hope you're putting that physique to appropriate use and sexing hot ladies left, right and center.

Seriously though, if you're going to criticise the 'yeah I'm fat but kinda strong mentality' looking like that is very much walking the walk. Fair play. Good read this log.

lol. did you miss the bit about the steroids?

Heh I need to complete my natty strength gain goals before I srs give thought to that. Let's revisit in a year or two (lol optimism).

I would like to get blood tested tho. For curiosity if nothing else. And maybe comparison for a couple of years from now. Diminishing test and plateaued gainz could push me to the dark side iyam.

Which test service do I select from Labcorp? I looked but there was no option for "guaranteed low test for EZ order orals."

Top lels

Nope. If aesthetic appearance is your goal and you're comfortable with health consequences I think it's a reasonable choice.

My point is that Evoken talks a lot of ****, but he looks the part so it's all good imo.

Out.

Chest+Back

Incline db press: 80sx8x2, 80sx11
Pullups: bwx22,12,9,8,9=60
HS chest press: 45+35x10x2,8,7,6
DB row: 100x10x4 each side pretty hard this time
Precor chest press: 110x30, 145x10x4
Cable Row: 140x10x5
BB curl SS with rope pushdowns: 65x16,10//90x15,9

Cardio: 20 min bike level 15 124 cals 131 heartrate

My pec tendon is finally back to normal. I remember I did a flat bench workout with 235x5,5,3 and felt something pop like literally 2 months ago and it's just now back to feeling right. There was moderate irritation during pullups, but 0 during incline db press. Looks like I might have a brand new go to chest movement!! Yay!!

Do you even trap?

How much more is prescription test enth? Do you notice a difference?

I don't want to be miscontrued here. A lot of my ****talking is just building off of what loco has been saying since he arrived here. H+F had a bad start in like 2007-10. It was a super dogmatic and suffocating place that didn't really foster actual health and fitness and focused on ...Strength and Fatness. Competitive powerlifting or even powerlifting without competing as a hobby are NOT training for health and fitness, yet we jammed powerlifting programming and dietary recommendations down people's throats. Most people who come to this forum come to improve general health and look better, yet the recommendation for a typical 150lb 5'10 skinnyfat noob with these goals was always "do SS for 9 months, then gomad to stretch out gains, then TM for the rest of your life and you can buy Justin's ******* ebook for only 34$". Instead for the same 150lb guy it should be: Do SS to familiarize yourself with some of the harder to learn movements and maybe get up to 165lbs with and take your squat sets from 95->225lbs and then switch to a bro-split or upper/lower routine and mix in your favorite cardio because that's also important to your health.

Smashing your face into 5s past this point is only going to result in 5-7 minute rest periods and injuries. You'd be much more conditioned, muscular, and way less beat up just brosplitting. Find me anyone who took the SS->getfat->TM route who doesn't have some long term chronic injuries. It's part of the game for pl, but for general health it actually ends up hurting you because something will inevitably start giving you chronic problems and that is making you less healthy. I'm still dealing with pec tendon **** I developed in 2011 from grinding away bench sets of 5 in the 225-245 range with 5 minute rests. If I'd just ****ing quit and done 10s with low rest I probably wouldn't have this problem at all. The classical 10 rep brosplit gets so much hate and people invoke science about optimal muscle recovery times, but what about joints and tendons? Heavier weight=more tendon+joint stress and you're coupling this with higher frequency which is a recipe for disaster. Cha if you're reading you're objectively wrong if you still think higher reps aren't easier on joints.

If anyone suggested this back in 09 Thremp would have had an aneurysm and people would have linked off horrible t-nation articles written by fat powerlifters about how pushing a prowler for 15 seconds at a time was much better than STEADY STATE CARDIO which is evil and horrible and how "deurp muscle growth optimally occurs at reps of 3 not 10-12!!!`!".

We've definitely gotten more open minded in the past few years, fortunately, and we don't seem to just assault new people who come here wanting a path other than SS. I think we should make a new FAQ to reflect this though.

1. Free through state provided insurance, thx Obama.
2. No. I think people believe UGL gear is way more faked/underdosed than it actually is when it comes to the basics. If I were to guess I'd say almost nobody underdoses staples like test/deca/tren. They mostly fake the more exotic and expensive ones.

These are bodybuilding rows, not kroc row/deadlifts. But regardless I have always been exceptionally weak at this movement. I want to blame pullups beforehand but my abs are always what ends up so sore afterword so I think this is a good core builder for me.

Lol it's basically the only movement where I have a shot at being stronger than you so I'll take it. I feel you on the abs part. Keeping good stability for decent TUT is super hard especially on the eccentric where you just want to give up.

speaking of horrible t nation articles, cruised on over to see what they were up to and i was not disappointed http://www.t-nation.com/training/oly...cks-for-squats

God it hurts me to know these people GET PAID to write this.

"The powerlifters may be doing a hip-dominant squat that engages the glutes and hamstrings more than the quadriceps."


****ing brilliant holy ****. We need a new Nobel Prize in EXERCISE SCIENCE.

Evo for H&F mod

Evo I was not trolling when I asked what bloodtest to get. fakeB needs help from the smarts

Options from labcorp:

143255 Testosterone, Free and Weakly Bound
144980 Testosterone, Free (Direct), Serum
140103 Testosterone, Free (Direct), Serum With Total Testosterone
081786 Testosterone, Free, Serum (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration) With Total Testosterone
004226 Testosterone, Total, Serum

Evo do you have any experience with the bodylogicmd network? There's a guy in my area in that network that seems to push "Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy" so I assume he'd prescribe test.