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Old 08-04-2011, 07:07 AM   #126
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

sayid,

what part of the hips do you believe would be ruined? And why?
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:00 AM   #127
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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i'd be interested to see your training log while you did this. i think the WS4SB is for athletes, so it is 1x5 effort instead of the true west side set up because joe defranco doesn't want to fatigue his athletes or get them injured in true max efforts. i know this isn't enough for technique, but the intensity is a lot higher i think.
I don't know if this will matter to you or not, but WS4SB is pretty far off from actual westside. I've trained a bit with a guy who helps run some of Westside's seminars with Louie, and he and other westiside guys have said repeatedly that WS4SB is both very unlike westside and not that awesome (in their fairly colored view).

I don't have the anywhere close to the strength numbers to call myself an expert on the topic, but I've been exposed to enough of it by a great trainer to probably answer a couple of easy questions. First thing - outside of GMs (which are 3RM due to spotting issues), max effort days are almost always 1RMs (I never did anything but a 1RM in the 6 weeks I was doing ME work with them).

/hijack

Nice squats sir.
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:47 PM   #128
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

Soulman, I dunno what part of the hips, but I think doing the same activity at high volume and intensity will lead to breakdown over time.

JakeDuke, do you think an intermediate who can squat more than twice his body weight for reps with decent form could do WSB and increase their squat significantly? Or do you think as Doug Funnie says it is important to get in high numbers of high effort reps with the squat to keep up with the skill/technical aspect of squatting?
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:44 PM   #129
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

Im gonna start a smolov JR bench cycle in september and Im atm doing 3x5 everyother workout and 3x1 or 3x2 the other half of the workouts. Do I need to do some kind of warm up before starting the cycle or is it just to suck it up and be sore for a while?
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:56 PM   #130
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

Did you skip the "switching phase"? And did you do the introductory microcycle?
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:56 PM   #131
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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Soulman, I dunno what part of the hips, but I think doing the same activity at high volume and intensity will lead to breakdown over time.
You still didn't answer why. Hopefully you have a basis for saying that besides your own thoughts on the matter. Also depends on what you mean by high volume/intensity of course.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:29 PM   #132
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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JakeDuke, do you think an intermediate who can squat more than twice his body weight for reps with decent form could do WSB and increase their squat significantly?
Yeah definitely. The biggest hurdle is having access to

1) resources to help you learn things like box squats and squatting with bands (internet and people who have done WSB can do this)
2) The equipment (e.g. boxes, bands, platforms for banded DL pulls, etc).

1 is very important, 2 can be somewhat worked around if you're creative although bands are an absolute necessity.

Quote:
Or do you think as Doug Funnie says it is important to get in high numbers of high effort reps with the squat to keep up with the skill/technical aspect of squatting?
My squat form actually got better doing WSB stuff since my glute and hamstring strength/awareness improved a great deal. Keep in mind that they occasionally do oly stance squatting as assistance work and banded box squats is one of the main DE exercises, so even if they max stuff is only singles you'll still get plenty of squat work in. Also, for DE work you're supposed to move the submaximal weight as if it was a max effort lift - this is fairly taxing.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:33 PM   #133
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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Nice squats sir.
Ty. I'm fairly happy with how I'm progressing, and I'm not really sure why it's doesn't seem good enough for bruiser

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Soulman, I dunno what part of the hips, but I think doing the same activity at high volume and intensity will lead to breakdown over time.
I would think it would lead to getting stronger over time. Actually the soft tissue quality in my hips and quads seemed better in the third week of Smolov than any time I can remember. I felt absolutely great.

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Im gonna start a smolov JR bench cycle in september and Im atm doing 3x5 everyother workout and 3x1 or 3x2 the other half of the workouts. Do I need to do some kind of warm up before starting the cycle or is it just to suck it up and be sore for a while?
I don't think you'll be too sore. It sounds like you're benching 2-3 times a week already? The intensity is pretty low for the first week. Just be a tiny bit conservative and don't use your true 1rm too calculate the work sets.

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Did you skip the "switching phase"? And did you do the introductory microcycle?
Yes and yes. In hindsight the switching phase and intensity phases may be worth it next time. I skipped them because most of the stories I read online had people making 60%+ of their gains after just doing the base cycle, so I figured that would probably be a good place to start. I was already squatting a fair amount going into it and I was pretty sure the high volume work wasn't going to cripple me with soreness.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:14 PM   #134
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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You still didn't answer why. Hopefully you have a basis for saying that besides your own thoughts on the matter. Also depends on what you mean by high volume/intensity of course.
I did say why; high volume and high intensity over time will break something down. I didn't say how because I am not familiar with how this happens. I can provide supporting evidence on this if that is what you want. Look at professional athletes in every event. As they spend more time in the sport they gradually have more and more injuries which they are managing which slow them down. This is due more to time spent training I believe than age. I think Gorilla said this verbatim. It is NOT as if years of playing American football will leave an athlete more prepared than ever to play American football... to reach that state is a very tricky line of preparation.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:19 PM   #135
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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Ty. I'm fairly happy with how I'm progressing, and I'm not really sure why it's doesn't seem good enough for bruiser



I would think it would lead to getting stronger over time. Actually the soft tissue quality in my hips and quads seemed better in the third week of Smolov than any time I can remember. I felt absolutely great.
You had great gains the last month but Smolov is not sustainable. I think two times a year will lead to problems within a few years with 90% certainty, and doing it more than twice a year would be madness. If you disagree I suppose you can go ahead and prove me wrong and get massive squat numbers if you are correct.

So, if you cannot do Smolov all the time what can you do to improve your lifts? Well, you said you were stagnating before for a fairly long time. So IMO do WSB and be a badass!!
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:14 AM   #136
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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You had great gains the last month but Smolov is not sustainable. I think two times a year will lead to problems within a few years with 90% certainty, and doing it more than twice a year would be madness. If you disagree I suppose you can go ahead and prove me wrong and get massive squat numbers if you are correct.
Before doing the base cycle I would've agreed with you. But given how fantastic I felt after finishing it (despite not eating or sleeping enough) I really doubt that doing it twice a year would ever lead to problems. I doubt that even 4 times a year would be an issue. We'll see though, I'm going to do another slightly more aggressive cycle with a caloric surplus and hopefully enough sleep some time starting around October/November.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:27 AM   #137
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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I did say why; high volume and high intensity over time will break something down. I didn't say how because I am not familiar with how this happens. I can provide supporting evidence on this if that is what you want. Look at professional athletes in every event. As they spend more time in the sport they gradually have more and more injuries which they are managing which slow them down. This is due more to time spent training I believe than age. I think Gorilla said this verbatim. It is NOT as if years of playing American football will leave an athlete more prepared than ever to play American football... to reach that state is a very tricky line of preparation.
I don't disagree that elite athletics will often lead to injuries due to overuse. However, I don't think DF is at that level with regards to lifting. Injuries in athletics is a combination of different things, like training age, type of activity performed, genetics, volume, technique, adequate recovery, absolute and relative intensity etc etc.

In any case, DF seems like a smart dude to me who won't push through injuries. In addition, he doesn't have the incentives to do so compared to elite athletes who do it for a living. There's also a difference between DF squatting 350 and elite lifters squatting well, way more - the latter will more easily lead to injuries.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #138
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

DIRTY BULKING!!!
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:24 PM   #139
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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Before doing the base cycle I would've agreed with you. But given how fantastic I felt after finishing it (despite not eating or sleeping enough) I really doubt that doing it twice a year would ever lead to problems. I doubt that even 4 times a year would be an issue. We'll see though, I'm going to do another slightly more aggressive cycle with a caloric surplus and hopefully enough sleep some time starting around October/November.
$2 says I'm right
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:06 PM   #140
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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I don't disagree that elite athletics will often lead to injuries due to overuse. However, I don't think DF is at that level with regards to lifting. Injuries in athletics is a combination of different things, like training age, type of activity performed, genetics, volume, technique, adequate recovery, absolute and relative intensity etc etc.

In any case, DF seems like a smart dude to me who won't push through injuries. In addition, he doesn't have the incentives to do so compared to elite athletes who do it for a living. There's also a difference between DF squatting 350 and elite lifters squatting well, way more - the latter will more easily lead to injuries.
I think you are confusing the issue. Almost on purpose, seemingly. High volume and high intensity will injure a person, PERIOD. Doing the same activity for high volume and high intensity repeatedly, will injure a person, PERIOD. Maybe the problems will take longer to manifest because doug has good technique, good genetics, is just lifting heavy now and not super heavy, or whatever else you want to say, but you are just confusing the issue, problems will come.

Yeah, DF is a "smart dude" but what are you saying here? It's okay if he injures himself cause he can manage it better once he runs into problems?
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:33 PM   #141
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

I'm saying what you perceive as high volume/intensity might not be so for DF. There is clearly a sliding scale here. No period. Viewing the world as black and white is rarely useful.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:38 PM   #142
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

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I'm saying what you perceive as high volume/intensity might not be so for DF. There is clearly a sliding scale here. No period. Viewing the world as black and white is rarely useful.
Thanks for the philosophy lesson but smolov is high intensity and volume for any human being.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:53 AM   #143
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

**** me. How did it get to be the 8th already? Gym closes in 5 days. Gonna wrap up SmolovJr this week and hopefully force myself to start kettletarding this weekend. Sleep/diet has been fairly terrible for the last 2 weeks, but hopefully I can get back on track.

Bruiser, Smolov is definitely very high volume. But the intensity really isn't that bad. Especially in my case, since I used 345 to calculate my weights when my true max was around 370. I mean, leading up to Smolov I was doing a TM style template. Below is a comparison between my 3rd week of Smolov and what I probably would've been shooting for on TM. The intensity on TM is much higher:

Day Smolov TM
Tuesday 275x9x4 325x5x5 (or equivalent pyramid)
Thursday 290x7x5 275x5x2
Saturday 305x5x7 Off
Sunday 320x3x10 345x5 (or heavier triples)

The only really "hard" part of Smolov is squatting back to back on your heavy days, but by then you're pretty adapted to sets of 9 and 7 so sets of 5 and 3 feel so much less taxing. I dunno, I think you're judging the program overly harshly considering you haven't ever tried volume close to that AFAIK. And that's fine given your set of goals; it wouldn't really make sense for you to abandon all unilateral, plyo, and conditioning work for a month just so that your squat goes up 20 lbs. But conversely it doesn't make sense for me to give up my empirically tested required squatting frequency just so that I get a chance to bring up some of my accessory lifts that aren't even guaranteed to have any carryover.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:55 PM   #144
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

8-8

Bench- 45x10x2, 135x5, 160x3, 170x2, 180x1, 190x5x7

Also did some curls and abs. 6th set was the easiest.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:52 PM   #145
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

8-10

Bench- 45x12x3, 135x5, 165x3, 185x2, 200x4x8
Deadlifts- 154x3, 242x3, 308x2, 353x1, 397x1, 407xf
Pullups- 3x5
Abs

Pec felt a little weird during deadlifts. Broke 407 pretty easily but my pec cramped so I just dropped it and didn't bother trying again. Haven't done any vertical pulling in awhile so I tested it with some light pullups.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:06 PM   #146
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

8-11

Dumbell Swings- 50x30x3
OHP- 45x10x3
Rip Style Triceps Extensions- 30x10x3

Went to the gym with a friend who was testing his max after a smolov bench cycle. The most he ever did before was 205, though he probably could've done 215-220 in a true max attempt. He made 225, 230, 235, 240, and missed 245 though he probably would've made it if we had planned better.

I'm anticipating 210x3x10 to be pretty rough tomorrow.
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:53 AM   #147
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

DF,

don't think you covered this - how much did you eat during your Smolov stint? Rough estimate - maintenance or above and if so, how much?
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:01 AM   #148
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

During the squatting portion my weight was flat to slightly negative, so 0 to 400 calorie a day deficit. I didn't try to change the amount that I was eating, but I knew that I'd need more carbs than I usually eat to get through it, so I tried to cut out a little bit of fat in lieu of more carbs, and I probably didn't strike an even balance.

My sleep was also fairly mediocre, usually getting 6.5 to 7 hrs on weekdays and 5 to 8 hrs on weekends. My weight has been flat at 162 to 163 over the last 4 weeks that I've been doing the bench cycle.

When I do the squat program again, I'm going to tack on an extra week or two and try to get more calories and sleep. So instead of 12 squat workouts I'll do 16 to 20, and hopefully gain 5 lbs. Looking back on it, I really felt so ****ing good when I got to the end of the cycle that I probably could've done another week or two despite not eating enough.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:44 AM   #149
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

Interesting, thanks. Gonna have to try Smolov/Jr. One time in the distant future.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:01 AM   #150
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Re: Doug's Smolov Log

You mentioned that you tried intermittent fasting, I'm thinking of giving it a shot this winter when I hopefully get up to 185 or so. I'd probably do something like:

1 pm lunch (600 cals, 60 grams protein, some carbs)
3 pm pre-training (600 cals, 60 grams protein, some carbs)
5pm-7pm training
7pm brotein shake (200 cals, 40 grams protein, no carbs)
9pm massive dinner (1500 calories, 140 grams protein, some carbs, tons of fat)

I think this is in line with what leangains recommends, but I've only read a few of the articles. What are your thoughts?
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