have a look @ http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm , your VDOT atm is 31, based on your 5k time from last week. based on that, it gives you an easy pace of 12:22 per mile... ---> you (probably) run way too fast during your easy runs.
now, of course, this is just one specific model / algorithm (based on jack daniels' running formula), but it is a very popular one and for me personally and many other people, it is very much on point. it's not written in stone. but as mentioned a few times earlier, if your 5k race pace is only "so little" faster than your easy pace, something isn't right. professional runners run under 3min pace per KM in races, but their easy pace is often over 4:30 per KM, so more than 50% slower... said differently: if your easy pace is really around 11:10 mile pace, your VDOT correlates with a below 27min 5k time.

now, why is this all important? your easy runs should be easy. it adds time on your feet, but it shouldn't have a long recovery window. soon, you will start to incorporate harder training runs into your routine. it's important that you are fit enough to do them as hard as you have to. therefore, make sure, that your easy days are easy and your hard days are hard (instead, most people run always somewhere in the middle. never really easy, but also never hard enough). the 2nd reason: you train two different energy systems: the aerobic and the anaerobic one. during your easy runs, you should spend ~100% in an aerobic state. but i suspect that you spend most of your training time during the easy runs in a (very low) anaerobic state. as a result, you do not train the aerobic system (because intensity is too high for that) but also NOT the anaerobic system (because intensity is too low for that). so the run becomes somewhat useless... (of course, in reality, it's never that black & white as described here)

now, of course, i can be completely wrong and your easy pace is just "abnormally fast", but it should never be the case that you feel like you can't hold the pace during an easy run (like you did a day ago). it should always be: "this feels easy and i can instantly start and run a mile full out in race pace".

recommendation: just reduce your easy pace slightly. aim for 11:30 pace or slower. and just see how you feel. and next week or the week after, incorporate harder trainings (let me know if you want specific recommendations). i suspect that you automatically will be happy to run a little slower the day after a hard interval training

good luck in the next 5k. i think your PR is out of reach. there's no reason why you should be 40 seconds faster than a week ago. you could aim for 29:30, but even that will be hard (your body will be more tired on next saturday than it was a week ago). hope to be wrong, but i don't think you'll improve your last week's time.

Tron,

How would you rank these factors for improving pace?

Weather
Better shoes
Reduced body weight
General fitness/conditioning level

Thanks for linking that pace calculator, it's very eye-opening. I've definitely slowed my training pace down since starting this thread...I used to run pretty much all out during my training runs. Looking back at my Runkeeper app from 2014 my training runs at my peak level were about 10:10 pace or so and my 10K race pace was around 9:40. I will try and slow down the pace more on my training runs and see what happens.

I'm definitely interested in any suggestions for interval/tempo/hill workouts.

Day 38

Great 4-mile run this morning...felt really good from start to finish. Playing golf in the morning so I'll be taking the next 2 days off from running before the 5K race Saturday morning.

Breakfast: Usual-501 cals

Lunch: Chicken sandwich w/ 5 oz chicken breast, 2 slices Sara Lee honey wheat bread, swiss, bbq sauce, olive oil-479 cals

Dinner: Same as lunch except subbed a tortilla for the bread, also had a pizza slice at work-709 cals

Snacks: Special K protein bar, granola bar, ice cream sandwich, popcorn-562 cals

Totals: 2251 cals, 152g protein

Running:
Mile 1 11:07
Mile 2 11:05
Mile 3 11:04
Mile 4 11:04

Day 39

Fun day of golf and poker!! Started out on fire, almost chipped in for birdie on the first 2 holes then stuck a 7-iron to 5 feet on the 3rd hole and made the putt to go 1-under thru 3. Wheels came off after that but it was still fun, shot 41-43. I used to be a 6 handicap back in the day but don't have the time or desire to practice anymore so it's just a handful of rounds a year.

Went to a home game later to play some $1/3...got stuck early, rallied and was up about $140 at one point but got too aggressive at the end and wound up $55 loser. Oh well it was still fun.

Another off day from running tomorrow then the 5K race Saturday morning!

Breakfast: Egg McMuffin, hash brown-450 cals

Lunch: 6-inch Philly cheesesteak w/ fries-891 cals

Dinner: Wendy's grilled chicken sandwich (pitched some of the bun), asiago cheese, bbq sauce-451 cals

Snacks: Nature valley sweet and salty bar, 1 Publix hot wing-221 cals

Totals: 2013 cals, 114g protein

Day 40

Off day from running but I got back in the gym. I've only gone once a week the last 2 weeks and it showed...struggled during the last set of every exercise. Race day Saturday!!

Breakfast: Usual-528 cals

Lunch: Chicken sandwich w/ 7.8 oz chicken breast, 2 slices Sara Lee honey wheat bread, swiss, fried egg yummmmm, Pam-655 cals

Dinner: O'Charley's honey drizzled fried chicken breast w/ loaded mashed potatoes (really tasty and I was shocked when I saw the calories on their website which is why I went with it), dinner roll-880 cals

Snacks: Ice cream sandwich, O'Charley's caramel pie (split it with my date)-562 cals

Totals: 2624 cals, 204g protein

Workout:
Chest press
15x1x80
15x1x90
9x1x100

Shoulder press
15x1x45
15x1x55
10x1x65

Seated row
15x1x70
15x1x80
12x1x90

Smashed it!! Started out really fast, held on in the second mile which was into the wind then finished stong. GPS had 29:20, chip time was 29:22!!

Splits:
Mile 1 9:20!
Mile 2 9:46
Mile 3 9:24

[IMG][/IMG]

Day 41

Race day! Felt great Saturday morning so I really went for it and started out super fast. Course was almost the same as last week but had one small hill in the first mile. After about a half mile my pace was less than 9:00 so I backed off a little and finished the first mile in 9:20.

The second mile was tougher, into the wind but I held on for a 9:46. I knew if I wanted to break 29:30 I'd have to push it and I still felt good so I went for it. The third mile was nearly all in shade and I just kept up a good pace, finishing it in 9:24. I could see the finish line and saw the race clock approaching 29:30 but I knew my chip time would be a few seconds faster and I ended up with an official time of 29:22!

Overdid it with the calories but I'm having a good week overall...back to crushing Sunday!

Breakfast: 2 slices Little Caesars (pitched the end crust), 2 Publix mini chocolate donuts at the post race party-695 cals

Lunch: Waffle House Texas toast sandwich w/ bacon, egg and cheese, plain hash brown-730 cals

Dinner: Grilled grouper, rice pilaf, fries at a local seafood festival-818 cals

Snacks: True north almond/pecan/cashew clusters (left up for grabs in the break room at work)-600 cals

Totals: 2842 cals, 105g protein

Running:
Mile 1 9:20
Mile 2 9:46
Mile 3 9:24
5K 29:22

Just randomly browsing the h&f threads and found this. Congrats on the PB and make sure you keep setting new goals to keep moving forward.

General fitness > Reduced body weight >>>>>>>>>> Shoes/Weather(?!)

First of all, not sure what you mean about the weather - yeah if it's sheeting down with rain and blowing a gale, or it's insanely hot then you're going to suffer, but outside of the extremes it's not going to make a big difference.

Shoes are pretty much irrelevant. Most of the stuff you read about running shoes is just marketing from the manufacturers, even if it's a 'reputable' running magazine, it's still just that bull**** being regurgitated. Unless you're the elite shaving milliseconds of your track times, your shoes don't make you run faster/better or prevent injuries. Just get shoes that are suited to the running you do (ie trail shoes for trails, road shoes for road etc) and make sure they fit well.

I put fitness over body weight because you can run fast by being fit but overweight, but can't run fast by being unfit and a good weight.

For interval type training, you can Google search and find millions of different training routines. Or you can just make it up. Literally just pick a distance/time for your interval and rest period, find a hill, go run it - repeat until you're spent. Unless you're at the elite level, the exact makeup of your training won't really matter. Just making sure you get out there and do it regularly is the number one consideration. In this regard, mixing it up and making it fun is way more helpful than getting bogged down in the fine details of exactly how it's structured.

Gl!

congratz!

i would rank it:
General fitness >> Reduced body weight >>>>>>>>> Weather > Shoes

+1 to everything pokerron said. it also depends what you mean with "reduced body weight". the difference between running with 250lbs and 150lbs is obviously HUGE. (i'd guesstimate 5min over a 5k). but it will take a while to get down to this weight (if that's even the goal).
in the end, general fitness will be the biggest factor in your race times.

i think weather is slightly more important than shoes because you are atm still very overweight (especially compared to typical runners). so you are (most probably) hit harder by hot weather (higher mass to surface area - ratio). but it shouldn't play a big role in a 5k, unless we're talking about extreme weather.

intervals etc: i'd suggest to simply exchange one easy run with a harder training effort, and keep the rest the same. so you have 2 hard days (interval/hills/tempo and the weekly long run) and 2 or 3 easy days. you slowly expand the weekly volume (while still having a recovery week every 3-4 weeks) and slowly expand the long run distance.
so, for example:
monday: rest
tuesday: easy day
wednesday: intervals / hills / tempo runs
thursday: rest
friday: easy day
saturday: rest
sunday: long run

just make sure to somewhat seperate the two hard days each week, the rest doesn't matter too much.

possible intervals / hills / tempo runs: as pokerron said, you can handle this very flexible. always warm up properly and cool down afterwards. i'd suggest to do maybe 2-3 miles of "hard effort" atm (and increase this ~linearly with total weekly distance, so this shouldn't be much more than 10% of your weekly volume). use the table from http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm (your vdot is 31 atm) for the pace guidelines when you start out. then of course, do it faster the next week, if it's too easy (or slow down if it's too hard). but those efforts should be hard, but not quite race-intensity hard. possible examples:
- 4x800m intervals (around 4min45 for each 800m) with a 3min break: walk or very slow run in between. you can vary distance (maybe between 200m and 1 mile), # of repeats, pace, break times etc. ; just pick suitable values. the first ones should feel somewhat easy, the last one should be very hard.
- just do a hilly trail run at a high intensity (but just for maybe ~2 miles).
- do a fartlek run: just pick arbitrary "landmarks" that are maybe 50 or 200 meters ahead (like a tree or a stop light or a trash container) that you "sprint" to, and then go back into easy pace. then pick the next landmark etc
- do a normal tempo run: warm up, run 3km at a very fast pace (around 5k pace or slightly slower), cool down.
- do an increasing tempo run. warm up with easy pace and do maybe 3 or 4km with slowly increasing pace. (start out maybe one minute per mile slower than your 5k pace and finish maybe 30seconds faster per mile; increase every 500m or whatever, just do it regularly).
- do hill repeats: pick a "hill" (not too steep or long at first). then run up at a high speed and jog down slowly (or maybe walk down at the beginning), then repeat immediately as soon as you reach the bottom. start out with a pace that you can (hopefully) keep up until the end. those are hard, start out easy. as an example, start out with a hill that takes you 2min to run up (in a pace that you can keep up 5 more times). then run/walk down so that you reach the bottom in 2 minutes, then repeat for a total of 6 times.

shuffle between those and similar workouts somewhat regularly (so don't JUST do hill repeats). but if you're in the mood for hill repeats, sure, do it 3 weeks in a row (but you won't do that, hehe).

to start out, i would structure those workouts clearly, so that you know exactly what you do on the upcoming run. this makes it imho easier to do them properly. the workouts are hard and it's easier to do the last repeats if you go into the workout with the clear plan to do x repeats. over time, you will (probably) automatically start to do things more by feel.

Ron,

I should've clarified what I meant by weather. I was referring to temperature, like the difference between say 75 and 50 degrees.

Ok yeah this won't make much difference at all, especially on a distance of 5k, and especially if you're sticking to the road where the surface underfoot won't be affected. As you build up in distance and ability, the conditions will start to matter more, but still not anywhere near as much as your fitness level. Also, if you're talking about races here, remember that everyone will be running under the same conditions. If the weather is particularly extreme then everyone's time will suffer and you will still end up in a similar position relative to the field.

Day 42

Easy 5 mile run this morning...slowed the pace down and it felt great, no soreness at all from yesterday. Next race is a 10k near the beach October 10th. Checked the official results from the 5K Saturday and I finished 202/497 overall runners and 15/24 in the M40-44 division.

Breakfast: Biscuits and gravy, 2 scrambled eggs w/ cheese-924 cals

Lunch: Grilled pork chops, rice pilaf-679 cals

Dinner: Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich w/ asiago cheese-620 cals

Snacks: Skinny cow-150 cals

Totals: 2373 cals, 185g protein

Running:
Mile 1 11:22
Mile 2 11:40
Mile 3 11:42
Mile 4 11:32
Mile 5 11:04

Monday morning weigh in:

247.0

Week 1 -5.4 lbs
Week 2 -1.0 lbs
Week 3 -3.4 lbs
Week 4 -1.6 lbs
Month 1 -11.4 lbs
Week 5 -.4 lbs
Week 6 -1.8 lbs

Total -13.6 lbs

Total mileage:
Week 1 17.2
Week 2 20.1
Week 3 22.2
Week 4 25.3
Week 5 16.1
Week 6 21.1

Much better week! Had a couple iffy days but avoided the huge blow ups. Gonna keep increasing the mileage and I'm hoping to do a 7.5 mile long run this Sunday. Going back to Tallahassee Wednesday to see my kids...my son has a "take your dad to school" day. So planning on running Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday & Sunday.

Day 43

Rained like crazy Monday morning so I was forced inside on the treadmill. Made it easy to keep the pace slow though and I knocked out my lifting after my run. Tried a Special K protein shake with breakfast, tasted too much like slim fast. I'll finish the 6-pack but probably won't buy anymore.

Breakfast: Usual (smaller amount), Special K protein shake-591 cals

Lunch: 2 slices Hormel thick bacon, 3 scrambled eggs w/ cheese, grits (.25 cup)-618 cals

Dinner: Forgot to pack my dinner...2 hot dogs, 1 bun, pizza slice at work-727 cals

Snacks: Special K protein bar-170 cals

Totals: 2106 cals, 116g protein

Running:
Mile 1 11:34
Mile 2 11:32
Mile 3 11:32
Mile 4 11:32

Workout:
Chest press
15x1x80
15x1x90
11x1x100

Shoulder press
15x1x45
15x1x55
10x1x65

Seated row
15x1x70
15x1x80
15x1x90

Day 44

Easy 4 mile run this morning...the rain stopped but it was pretty humid. Heading to Tallahassee in the morning to see my younger two kids so no running.

Breakfast: Usual (smaller amount), Special K protein shake (they're growing on me)-593 cals

Lunch: Grilled chicken sandwich at home with 6 oz chicken breast, 2 slices Sara Lee honey wheat bread, fried egg and swiss-548 cals

Dinner: Taco Tuesday! Wasn't super hungry so just 2 hard tacos w/ cheese-333 cals

Snacks: 5 chicken wings, popcorn, Skinny cow-604 cals

Totals: 2078 cals, 151g protein

Running:
Mile 1 11:17
Mile 2 11:26
Mile 3 11:33
Mile 4 11:19

there's really no reason for you to drink protein shakes (especially ones that are mostly just sugar & fat). if you're happy with it, sure, nothing wrong with drinking it, as long as the calories work out in the end. but 150g protein is more protein than you need atm; you're not lifting on most days (and even if you are, it's not "that intense").
make sure to get at least 75g per day, and maybe ~100g on average, but that's "definitely" enough for you.

to emphasise: there is absolutely nothing wrong with having 150g protein (or more) per day. if it works for you and helps you with satiety and compliance, perfect. but you shouldn't feel the need to reach 150g every day.

nice job with the rest.

Tron,

I just wanted to try something different with the protein shakes. Saw them on the shelf and thought they looked pretty good. May try and use 2 of them as a low cal meal replacement every now and then and see how that goes. They're 190 cals per so it would save 130-200.

Couple questions...

Have you ever experienced pain in your testicles from running? My right one is tender with mild pain the last couple days. Didn't really bother me yesterday during my run though.

My PR for a 10K is 1:00:26. Chances I can beat that or even break 60 minutes my next race October 10th? It's abother flat, fast course near the beach. Did the race last year but wasn't in shape for it at all and finished in 1:07 something. Last 10K race was in May on a tougher course 1:02:56.

i never any testicle pain. a friend of mine did the NY marathon and had extreme testicle pain at the end. he told me it was like someone kicked him in the balls. but that was the only time i've ever heard / read anything like that. and my friend never experienced anything similar either. can't help you here
is it really the testicle or could it just be bruising on the scrotum due to rubbing? you could try to use vaseline / bodyglide and see if it helps.

have a look at http://www.runningforfitness.org/cal...bmit=Calculate (not sure about your age, but it has to be quite close). this is all just a theoretical calculator based on the idea that you train as much "specifically for a 10k" as you did for your 5k. so if someone only ever runs 3miles, the calculator's half marathon prediction is obviously quite wrong.
this effect is certainly less strong for you, but your long runs are still slightly "too short" and therefore i think your 10k time will suffer slightly. so assuming that you have exactly the same "fitness level" as for your 29:22 5k, i think you'll end up with ~1:01:20 or so (so slightly slower as predicted).
BUT: there are 3 weeks between your 5k and the 10k and you should definitely already be faster again (and slightly lighter). i don't think it will be enough for a sub1hour run, but it could be close. still, i'd try it if i were you.
i would personally go out in exactly 1 hour pace. and hope you can hold on. but i think 1:00:30 - 1:01:00 is more realistic, but still, go for it (but just don't be disappointed, it's a lofty goal)

Well you know I'm gonna go for it!! I feel like if it's a crisp 50 degree morning with not much wind I'm going out fast and we'll see what happens. As far as the other issue it definitely feels more "internal". If it doesn't go away on its own I'll have it looked at.

Day 45

Spent the day in Tallahassee with my younger two kids. I got to participate in my son's "take your dad to school day" and had lunch with him at school (he wanted Whataburger so I left and brought it back). Hit the Mongolian stir fry place for dinner again so I ended up over for the day but it wasn't terrible. It's not an all you can eat place...you fill up one smallish bowl with all the raw meats and veggies you want, pick out which sauce you want and they prepare it on a hibachi and combine it with rice or noodles in a bigger bowl. So yummy!!

Dropped them off with my ex around 8 then made a quick stop at the Gretna poker room which is right on the interstate on my way home. Quick 2 hour roller coaster session of $1/2...in for $150, doubled up fairly quickly then lost a huge 3-way all in with AcKc v QQ v AhQh. King on the river completes Broadway for the third place hand lol. Got knocked down to $32 after that hand and was about to hit the ATM to reload but I doubled up twice soon after and ended up running it up to just over $500 then hauled ass! I've been up since 4 am but it was totally worth it...got to spend time with my kids and a few fish picked up the tab!!

Back to the running tomorrow...hoping the discomfort in my man region subsides!!


Breakfast: 2 Egg McMuffins-600 cals

Lunch: Whataburger grilled chicken sandwich w/ Monterey Jack, medium fries-900 cals

Dinner: Mongolian stir fry meat orgy...chicken, steak, shrimp, crab, sausage, bacon w/ Lo mein style noodles, stir fry and Kung pao sauce-w1078 cals

Snacks: None

Totals: 2578 cals, 181g protein

Day 46

I had the day off..went to an indoor shooting range with a friend from work. First time I'd ever shot a handgun! Lots of fun, definitely will go back and do it again.

Easy 4 mile run first thing this morning, still have some discomfort in my testicle but it doesn't really bother me at all when I run. Weather is great for running right now, high 50s in the morning. Back at it tomorrow!


Breakfast: Special K protein shake and protein bar-360 cals

Lunch: Made a really good seafood lunch at home! Sautéed shrimp (8 oz), baked grouper (7.5 oz) and boiled red potatoes (8.2 oz), olive oil, butter-828 cals

Dinner: Big bowl of Special K protein flakes, 1% milk-712 cals

Snacks: Skinny cow

Totals: 2050 cals, 178g protein

Running:
Mile 1 11:18
Mile 2 11:30
Mile 3 11:42
Mile 4 11:30

Day 47

Another cool morning...I felt great, testicle pain nearly gone!! Easy 5 mile run...gonna rest tomorrow and stretch my long run Sunday to 7.5 miles.

Breakfast: Usual-553 cals

Lunch: Was on the go running errands...McDonald's triple cheeseburger-520 cals

Dinner: 2 slices bacon, 2 scrambled eggs and cheese on a tortilla-537 cals

Snacks: 2 Special K protein bars, skinny cow-490 cals

Totals: 2099 cals, 131g protein

Running:
Mile 1 11:21
Mile 2 11:29
Mile 3 11:21
Mile 4 11:32
Mile 5 11:22

Day 48

Woke up with pain free testicles....huge relief!! Took the day off from running. Back at it tomorrow with my Sunday long run. Supposed to be high 50s in the AM, gonna try and do my longest run since March, at least 7.5 miles!

Tried a new snack today, the Oscar Mayer portable protein pack. There's several varieties, each with a meat, cheese and nut portion. Very yummy and only 180 cals with 12g protein!!

Breakfast: Usual-501 cals

Lunch: Grilled pork chop w/rice pilaf at work-573 cals

Dinner: Had a date after work, shared an appetizer...Carne esada fries w/ cheese, very yummy! Also had blackened shrimp, didn't touch the rice that came with it-949 cals

Snacks: Oscar Mayer portable protein pack w/ ham, cheese cubes & cashews, large popcorn at work, 2 rum & diets-695 cals

Totals: 2718 cals, 195g protein I'm

Day 49

Woke up to a crisp 55 degree morning with a cool breeze...ideal for running!! Intended to go at least 7.5 miles, ran at a comfortable pace and just let my body dictate it. I was never out of breath and only felt some fatigue in mile 7, which was directly into about a 15 mph wind. Ended up going 8 miles...my longest run since March!! The last mile was my fastest, mostly because there's a small hill at the end of my route but it still felt good to have that much left in the tank after 90 minutes of running.

Breakfast: Usual-523 cals

Lunch: Patty melt on rye bread w/ swiss & bbq sauce, steak fries-1044 cals

Dinner: Special K protein flakes, 1% milk-473 cals

Snacks: Special K protein shake, BK double cheeseburger, pudding cup-610 cals

Totals: 2650 cals, 159g protein

Running:
Mile 1 11:12
Mile 2 11:19
Mile 3 11:14
Mile 4 11:09
Mile 5 11:20
Mile 6 11:17
Mile 7 11:27
Mile 8 11:02