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Old 03-17-2010, 06:23 AM   #1
PokerRon247
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Whisky

I've noticed that whenever whisky is mentioned in the various chat/regs threads across the forum, it tends to generate a lot of interest, so what better place to start a Whisky dedicated thread for some interesting discussion on the greatest of all drinks (imho), than EDF? There is an old EDF whisky thread here but it seems to have died out, so hopefully a new thread will revive some interest.

I intend the thread to include anything about all types and styles of whisk(e)y including tasting reviews, a place for people to show off their collection, a place for whisky newbies to find out what they need to know, distillery trip reports etc.

First, a quick primer on the basics....

What is whisky?

Whisky is made from just 3 ingredients - grain, water and yeast. The grain (malted barley in single malt Scotch, maize in bourbon) is fermented into a strong "beer", and this beer is then distilled. The resulting alcoholic liquid is then stored in barrels and matured for a period of years. See here for more on the distilling process.

What defines a particular whisky?

Scotch -

Scotch whisky is, of course, whisky made in Scotland. To be called Scotch, it has to be matured for at least 3 years in oak casks (usually 2nd hand ex-bourbon casks), although most good quality Scotch is matured for a lot longer, usually at least 10 years.

Single malt is Scotch whisky made entirely in one distillery and using only malted barley. The taste of single malts differ markedly from distillery to distillery, and even moreso between the different regions of the country. Single malt is often considered the finest style of whisky available worldwide, although this is of course up for argument.

Grain whisky is made using a variety of (usually inferior quality) grains and is generally produced as a much more pure and characterless spirit than malt. It's main purpose is to be mixed with malt whisky to make Blended whisky. Although blended whiskies make up the cheaper end of the market, there are also some expensive and high quality blends available.

American whiskey -

The dominant style in the U.S. is bourbon, which is whiskey made from between 51-80% corn, with rye and malted barley typically accounting for the rest. (Some “wheated bourbons” like Maker’s Mark substitute winter wheat for the rye, and a few rare bourbons use both.) Tennessee whiskey, made famous by the Jack Daniel’s brand, has much the same ingredients as bourbon but is filtered through sugar maple charcoal before it is matured, significantly altering the character of the whiskey. American straight rye whiskey contains a minimum 51% rye, while straight corn whiskey contains at least 80% corn. (In recent years, other whiskey varieties have appeared in the U.S. as well, including straight wheat whiskey and various types made primarily from barley.)

Canadian whiskey -

The traditional Canadian style blends malted rye whiskey with corn and other whiskeys and neutral spirits. The result is softer and sweeter than many other whiskeys, but with the characteristic bittersweet spiciness of rye.

Irish whiskey -

Like Scotch, Irish whiskey is primarily made from barley, but rather than just using malt barley, the Irish traditionally add some unmalted barley before fermentation and distillation. Irish whiskey is also typically triple distilled, giving it a lighter flavor. The end result is a distinct but easy to drink whiskey, whether traditional “pure pot still” or blended with grain whiskey.

Other world whiskies are available, Japan being the most notable, which follows the Scotch model. Other countries that currently produce whiskey in much smaller quantities include Wales, England, India, Australia, France and Spain.

Who makes the best whisky? Well despite a huge amount of snobbery in the whisky world (usually biased towards Scotch), the true answer is that no one distillery or no one country makes the best whisky. It's completely down to personal preference.

Tasting whisky

What is the best way to drink whisky? Straight? On ice? With a mixer? Well the correct answer is however the hell you like. You paid for it, you drink it how you like. If however you ask what is the best way to taste whisky, then the answer is neat, at room temperature and with just a splash of still water added. The three basic components of tasting whisky are as follows:

- The appearance

Pour in a measure of whisky - about an ounce or a generous finger's breadth. Hold the glass to the light, or against a white napkin, and admire its colour, depth and clarity. New spirit is gin-clear; 20 years in sherry wood may turn the whisky the colour of treacle. Between these poles is a spectrum of hues.

The whisky's appearance should be a guide to how it has been matured, and for how long, since the colour comes from the wood. A very dark sherry will almost certainly have been matured in a first-fill oloroso cask; a very pale one suggests a third or fourth fill bourbon hogshead. Remember that unless you are drinking whisky which has been drawn from a single cask, a number of different casks (from three to three hundred) will have been vatted together.

To confuse the issue further, distillers are allowed to add small amounts of colouring (in the form of caramel) in order to ensure that each batch looks the same as the next. They claim this is tasteless; many people think otherwise.

- The nose


This is the sensation and aroma that you pick up from the whisky before tasting it. Important characteristics can be found and can indicate what the whisky will taste like. Pour a reasonable amount into the glass and swirl the whisky around for a short time, so as to allow oxygen to get to the liquid and evaporation to begin. This is important as the whisky has been trapped in a cask or a bottle for all of it’s life until this point and needs a little time to express itself and start to show it’s true characteristics. Take a note of the colour while you are waiting for these couple of minutes. Put your nose to the glass and breathe in, letting the aromas circulate around your nostrils. Repeat this three or four times and think about what the aromas remind you of – are they light, fresh, heavy, rich, fruity, floral, spicy, smoky etc? Try to predict what the taste of the whisky will be like.

- The palate

The flavour of the whisky on your palate is the most rewarding and enjoyable part of the whole process! The most thing is not to drink the whisky too fast (like a shot of tequila or similar spirit) and to savour it in your mouth so as to get the maximum flavour and benefit. Different parts of your tongue and mouth respond to different flavours and stimuli so pass the whisky over all areas of your mouth to gain maximum effect. Upon swallowing, there will be an alcoholic burn (which is one of the main things that puts a lot of people off drinking whisky) but it is important to let this pass as it is now that any whisky will reveal it’s true characteristics. Try to identify obvious flavours that are present and repeat, trying to identify something new each time. Remember, there are no right or wrong answers and everyone’s taste buds are different so don’t worry if you get a flavour that someone else doesn’t or vice versa.

- The finish

This is the after taste that comes once you have swallowed the whisky. Some people say that the complexity of the finish in whisky is what differentiates it from all other spirits. Once you get passed the alcoholic burn, then numerous flavours can reveal themselves, some of which can be extremely subtle. The list can be extensive but again try an relate the flavours and sensations to things that you have tasted in the past. Also, ask yourself whether the flavours remain for a short, medium or long time. This is called the length of finish.

There is more in-depth tasting information to be found here.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:30 AM   #2
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Re: Whisky

Here is my current whisky collection....



As you can see, I'm more of a Scotch drinker (the only non-Scotch is the Rowan's Creek bourbon on the right hand side), although I'm planning on expanding my collection to take in more world whiskies. On my wish list at the moment are some more bourbons, a rye, a Japanese, an Irish and the brand new English whiskey (the first whisky to be distilled in England for over 100 years).

I'll try and submit a tasting review of each one of these whiskies in my collection over the next few weeks.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:44 PM   #3
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Re: Whisky

A+ thread, I learnt a lot from your OP.

My collection is quite small at present, I have Glenfiddich 12, Laphroaig Quarter-cask and Jameson. Interested in your review of the English whisky, I hadn't heard they were producing one.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:58 PM   #4
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Re: Whisky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
A+ thread, I learnt a lot from your OP.
+1

I'm still quite young and drinking whisky is not all that common although I do have a bottle of The Famous Grouse and Glenfiddich 12 lying around should I feel the urge for it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:00 PM   #5
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Re: Whisky

+2

Personal favorite, and has been for several years, is Woodford reserve. I haven't tried anything really expensive/rare, but for the price it's unbeatable imo.
Anyone else find that many scotches have an after-taste of tequila? I used to drink scotch a fair amount but a friend of mine pointed it out and now I can't drink it (I hate tequila)

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Old 03-17-2010, 10:52 PM   #6
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Re: Whisky

Great OP.

I'm a fan of Islay single malts above all other whiskies, I saw you have the Bowmore 12 which is a fine one, I haven't had the chance to try that many but am a big fan of Laphroiag and Lagavulin.

I'm pretty much crap at describing flavors or why I like certain things though.

When I don't feel like any serious drinking I am also a big fan of blended whisky + seltzer as a light and refreshing drink. Dash of bitters and / or muddled ginger optional.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:48 AM   #7
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Re: Whisky

Thanks for the replies guys. I can't take full credit for the OP as some of it was copied from other sites, but it did take me a while to put it together as there was so much I wanted to include but had to cut most of it out for the sake of clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
Interested in your review of the English whisky, I hadn't heard they were producing one.
The English Whisky Co. is a new distillery that distilled it's first run of spirit in 2006. They have been releasing their product in small batches, first as a "new make" spirit (the distillate straight out of the still with no matuation), then as 18 month old "malt spirit", and finally at the end of last year they have been able to call their 3yr old spirit "whisky". Despite it's youth, it's had good reviews, so I'm eager to give it a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dippy111 View Post
Personal favorite, and has been for several years, is Woodford reserve. I haven't tried anything really expensive/rare, but for the price it's unbeatable imo.

Anyone else find that many scotches have an after-taste of tequila? I used to drink scotch a fair amount but a friend of mine pointed it out and now I can't drink it (I hate tequila)
I don't know too much about bourbon so can't really comment, but I've heard that Woodford Reserve is a good quality starter bourbon. I definitely want to try some good quality bourbons, would be good to hear in this thread from somebody that knows a bit about the subject.

I can't say I've ever noticed a tequila taste, which is a good thing for me because tequila is pretty much the only alcoholic drink that I absolutely can't stand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham on rye View Post
I'm a fan of Islay single malts above all other whiskies, I saw you have the Bowmore 12 which is a fine one, I haven't had the chance to try that many but am a big fan of Laphroiag and Lagavulin.

I'm pretty much crap at describing flavors or why I like certain things though.
I too am an Islay fan. The Caol Ila and Ardbeg whiskies in my collection are also Islays. I'm reading this book on Islay and it's whiskies at the moment. It's a good read so far, with alternating chapters, one on Islay itself and it's geology, history, people etc, then a chapter on a distillery, with one for each of the 7 distilleries on the island. The only problem being that I just know that every time I get to a distillery chapter, I'm going to want to buy a bottle of that particular whisky. Knowing a bit about the spirit you are drinking, the history behind the distillery, the details of the distilling process etc, helps you appreciate the drink so much more. I think this is why distillery tours are so popular.

I also used to be terrible at discerning flavours. When I used to just have one bottle in the house at a time, I'd enjoy the one bottle, but when I finished it and bought another, I couldn't really tell the difference. Having more than one bottle at a time and being able to taste two different whiskies in the same evening really helps with being able to distinguish different tastes and styles.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:45 PM   #8
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Re: Whisky

Great thread idea - I'm also big on the Islay.

For those looking for an Irish whiskey, I recommend Redbreast, a pure pot still whiskey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_pot_still_whiskey
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Old 03-19-2010, 03:13 PM   #9
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Re: Whisky

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerRon247 View Post
If however you ask what is the best way to taste whisky, then the answer is neat, at room temperature and with just a splash of still water added.
I only recently started adding a bit of water to activate the whisky and it makes a big difference. The advice I got was to get the alchohol content down to about 35% for an 80 proof whisky. I think that's a bit much for my taste but a bit of water helps for sure.

I love the peaty Islay malts. I have a 16 year old Lagavulin that I've been working on. At Christmas, I bought a bottle of the Lagavulin Distiller's Edition for a party. It's finished in sherry flutes and creates a sweetness with the smokey peat. Highly recommended.

If you live in the Vancouver area, check out Hopscotch. It's a scotch festival and it happens once a year. You can try dozens of different scotches for dirt cheap. 3 bucks for a shot of Oban? Yes please. A nice mixture of high and mid range is available.
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Old 03-19-2010, 03:37 PM   #10
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Re: Whisky

there's a decent bit of whiskey info in this thread as well
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Old 03-20-2010, 06:01 AM   #11
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Re: Whisky

i'm a pretty big fan of McCallan since trying it in Las Vegas a while back. It's now my go to drink whenever I am out. The majority of place i go to only have it up to 18. I have 25 at home, and have had i believe 30 at the borgata playing high limit blackjack there.

don't really know much else. Have a bottle of blue label, but i haven't opened it since i got it as a gift like 2 years ago.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:58 AM   #12
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Re: Whisky

Quote:
Originally Posted by DietPepsi13 View Post
i'm a pretty big fan of McCallan since trying it in Las Vegas a while back. It's now my go to drink whenever I am out. The majority of place i go to only have it up to 18. I have 25 at home, and have had i believe 30 at the borgata playing high limit blackjack there.
I've never had McCallan myself, but whenever I've seen whisky mentioned in these forums, it always comes up, and usually from Americans. I think it must be a brand that's got a hold on the export market. I must get round to trying it soon.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:31 AM   #13
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Re: Whisky

i had the macallan 21 while i was in the middle east and was quite impressed by it. macallan is one of 3 or 4 single malts that pretty much every restaurant and liquor store has here in some form, at least in my experience on the east coast.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:57 AM   #14
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Re: Whisky

actually i would appreciate some help with something if you dudes don't mind. same trip where i was drinking the mac 21 some grizzled old marine gave me a generous pour of somebody or other's "exceptional" or "centenary" or "commemorative" whiskey, i remember thinking it was one of the J brands (jim or johnnie i think) but couldn't find it anywhere on the intertubes. it was a short, round bottle, very dark, round and smooth. hell it might have been bourbon i can't remember. i kind of remember it being a relatively inexpensive brand and being surprised by its quality. would like to find it again.

sorry that's a terrible description, goddammit.
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:55 PM   #15
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Re: Whisky

I'm a pretty big fan of Crown and I like it neat and on the rocks, but I tried some fancier whiskies at an upscale lounge in Chicago and thought they were all pretty awful. Do I just need to keep trying them to adjust or am I just a girly man who likes sweet things?
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #16
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Re: Whisky

All,

Some whisky I have.



Peaty scotches: Laphroaig Quarter Cask, Ardbeg Airigh Nam Beist, Bruichladdich 3D3 ‘Norrie Campbell’, Bruichladdich PEAT, Ardbeg Uigeadail, Laphroaig 10 Murray McDavid Chateau Margaux Finish



More scotch: Glenlivet Nadurra, Mortlach 13 Murry McDavid Port Finish, Balvenie Portwood 21, Balvenie Single Barrel 15, Highland Park 18, Talisker 10



Some bourbon: Noah's Mill, Black Maple Hill 16, Eagle Rare, Maker's Mark, Bulleit, Booker's, George T Stagg



Whoa!



WHOA!!!

Last edited by El Diablo; 03-21-2010 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:00 PM   #17
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Re: Whisky

OP: Outstanding post.

PokerRon collection: The Talisker, Obans, Caol Ila, Bowmore, and Jura Superstition you have are all excellent, and all in the broad flavor profile of smooth with mild to medium levels of peatiness. The Ardbeg 10 is very good peatier scotch, but a little harsh. I'd suggest you try adding a Lagavulin 16 to the mix for a very well-balanced, very peaty scotch. The Dalwhinnie is an excellent, smooth/clean/sweet scotch. I'd suggest trying Balvenie 12, Macallan 12, and Highland Park 12 for a few other variations of that general flavor profile. The Rowan's Creek is great. Definitely check out a couple more bourbons and a rye. Given your interest in flavors/tasting, I'd strongly recommend trying a lot more scotches and bourbons before putting any money into Japanese/English/Irish/American single malt/whatever.

Dippy: Some of the more heavily oaked and smokier scotches can share some characteristics w/ excellent aged tequila. If you stick w/ Speyside and Highland scotches you are unlikely to run into that.

krmont: Start w/ some Speyside or Highland scotches and look for port/sherry/sauternes/madeira/etc finish. That means that after aging the scotch in a (typically) bourbon cask, they finish the aging process in a barrel of one of those sweet wines, adding a little bit of sweetness, balance and complexity to the flavor. Balvenie 12 (~$40) is an excellent example of that style, and a great scotch that I highly recommend to people getting started w/ scotch.

HoR: Blanton's (bourbon) and Glenrothes (Scotch) are two excellent whiskies that come in short round bottles.
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Old 03-20-2010, 03:29 PM   #18
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Re: Whisky

el d,

it was definitely a fairly major producer like JW or Beam or maybe even Crown, but some sort of special edition that i have since been unable to find. i remember seeing the name on it and being like "meh" and then being pleasantly surprised. i know this is not much help, sorry.

basically does anyone know of a super high end scotch / bourbon by one of these big mainstream, i think american distillers that for some reason is not easily found on google, bevmo etc. and looks like this. i don't know much of the really high end market or whether some of these folks put out limited editions that aren't widely known or something.
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:42 PM   #19
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Re: Whisky

It's not this that you're thinking of is it?

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Old 03-20-2010, 05:56 PM   #20
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Re: Whisky

no, bottle is even more round & squat like a crown bottle. and it was much nicer stuff than that
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Old 03-20-2010, 05:57 PM   #21
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Re: Whisky

For better or worse, I'm definitely starting to get into the scotch thing. It's becoming more or less my night-cap after a long-day of work. I'll have to make it my new hobby...

Started with a couple recommended here and by friends:
Dalwhinnie 15
Oban 14

Then added a couple from the liquor store guys recommendation:
Stronachie 12
Lombard 12 (I also tried their 28yr version after gifting it to a friend)

Obviously tons and tons of nuance and personal taste on what's a good quality item, but the Dalwhinne is my clear favorite so far. I wish that I could go into a little bit more about the differences, but still working out my pallet to identify the various flavors that come through. That'll just come with time I suppose. Last night, I was like dang this Dalwhinnie is sweet when I took my first sip. At least, that's how I presently describe it! May well change as I can start identifying things more directly.

Any additional recommendations that are more sweet/smooth are always appreciated
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:39 PM   #22
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Re: Whisky

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo View Post
OP: Outstanding post.
Dippy: Some of the more heavily oaked and smokier scotches can share some characteristics w/ excellent aged tequila. If you stick w/ Speyside and Highland scotches you are unlikely to run into that.
fwiw i believe it was dewars white label that first gave me that impression. It was all in the after taste. Like I said I never noticed it until my friend made the remark. Since then I've had various scotches that either didn't have this characteristic or had it to a lesser extent.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:51 PM   #23
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Re: Whisky

Great thread. Jameson is my whiskey of choice.

Love this pic..

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Old 03-20-2010, 10:29 PM   #24
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Re: Whisky

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Originally Posted by ham on rye View Post
no, bottle is even more round & squat like a crown bottle. and it was much nicer stuff than that
Crown has cask #16 which is left in a cognac barrel if you are into that flavor it s very nice
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:37 AM   #25
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Re: Whisky

The Glenlivet is the only way to go! i wish we could get the 21 year glenfiddich here in the states but we gotta have our embargo against cuba so untill that ends no gran reserve for us
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