Henry
Ok since the fact that im from japan, this may or may not work is a legitimate question.

I think we are getting too carried away with focusing on THIS one form of pickup.

Fryke
When I mean girls thrown at me, I mean literally pushing into me/my direction. Not thrown on my lap to **** if I please. The idea is the next time you see these girls (in the club) THEY stop you, even if you don't notice them they will notice you and pull you in to have fun etc. Sure not all of them do that, but the ones who are most interested will.

Now I compare this to before when I didn't do such 'antics' it never happened to me. If I am alone no girl ever approaches me. If I dance with one girl, I show social value, then another girl may want to dance with me aswell.

Yes people will always care about what others think, thats how social beings function. But the thing is, do you want to be that guy who gets a job just because it promotes his social status? IE Doctor, Engineer. I really hope you choose your lifetime career because its what you truly want to do, not because society deems it worthy of their approval.

What we really need to focus on though is all of the 'non believers' question.

Is it a simple does PUA work or not?
Is it right or not?

I really don't get the question lol

Is it, can any guy use these tactics or not?

Once we iso the question of this discussion we can get MUCH better answers quick and direct, this thread has gone on for too long depending on what the question is

Not. Every PUA who claims it works will in the end use any metric other than actually getting laid. Phone numbers, hugs, girls talking to them, etc everything but actual sex.

Obviously the answer to question 1 is the same as question 2.

Guys can use them? Yes guys can act like idiots. It just won't get them laid. Using them is a good way to further entrench the fact that they don't fit in or to make an ass of themselves and be embarrassed (if they only realized should be) but that is it.

Not every PUA. I once linked you to a book called The Adventures of Brad P. You quickly dismissed this and said it would never work on real girls, or something similar.

In the book he talks about threesomes with hot girls, sex with 3 different women in one day, getting laid 5 nights in a row with a new woman each night, and lots of other lays.

Discussing this with you is pointless though. Don't even know why I'm responding.

So someone who is trying to sell you something claims it works and writes a bunch of stories that you have no way of verifying but you think it is reasonable to believe him because people selling you stuff would never lie.

Are you really this gullible?

Ok so lets narrow this down further

Is it if you can get laid in one night ? Or eventually with the woman you 'attract' ?

You are hilarious. HI-LA-RI-OUS.

PUA clearly doesn't teach comebacks or rebuttals.

Well I try. But honestly that is your response to PUA works is to reference some badly written journal by a retard? Have you ever been to a MLM gathering? They will all have stories about how successful they are. Most of them are millionaires yet they are still wearing suits from TipTop and trying to get people to sign up for the program in seedy motels. They will even show you pictures of their homes, cars, private jets, and yachts. I had one guy even show me his Amway commission cheque which was actually a prop given to him to show people he was trying to recruit but which he could never cash. People who are trying to get stuff from you need to be approached with a certain level of caution. Brad P sells PUA material / boot camps so he has a vested interest in telling you how much sex he has. I guarantee it has nothing to do with the stuff he teaches which is horrible.

Stuff I remember about Brad P

Horse Girl Opener

YOU: "Hey do you like horses?"
GIRL: ”HUH? ummm yea i guess."
YOU: "Hmm, I thought so. OK check this out, when I was in the 6th grade, there was this girl who loved horses. She used to run around the playground for an hour straight at lunchtime. She'd be galloping and making horse noises. We used to call her the weird horse girl."
GIRL: “Yeah, so?"
YOU: "well...you look JUST LIKE HER!"

The Dropped Call

While talking to a girl or leaving a message you start to tell her something about her that you found out from someone you just ran into and then you hang up so she thinks the cell phone dropped the call. The idea is her curiosity will overwhelm her and she'll call back.

How to close on the Phone

You ask the girl to do something. If she declines keep talking and ask her again in a few minutes. If she declines again change the topic and talk some more than ask again. The idea is to just keep asking until she says yes.

Which of those do you think shows he actually understands women / dating / picking up?

His stuff is all pretty out there, but girls actually respond well to this. You'd need to try it first, and then judge.

I think this is lame as well, and he doesn't recommend this anywhere AFAIK. He just wrote it once in that book.

I think the point here is that when you ask a girl for her phone number or try to kiss her or something, and she declines, it doesn't mean that she rejects you permanently and just doesn't like you. It means she is not willing to do that at that time, but if you try again later she might.
Many guys would make a big deal out of this kind of 'rejection' and get affected emotionally, but if you act like it's not a big deal, the woman will not think it's a big deal either.

Now, obviously, you should be able to tell when a woman is not interested in you. This doesn't mean rejection doesn't exist, before you guys are going to say Brad wants you to rape women or something.


Brad P. has put insane effort into getting good with women. (Unless you believe that is a lie as well.) I was at a bootcamp with him, and he told us that he approached 10 to 20 women a day for a month without getting any result, and at the end of the month he got his first phone number. He felt like a king then, but she didn't call back. But he kept approaching women like 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 8 months, and after that he was (obviously?) good with women.
While he was learning, he would also go out with men who were naturally great at picking up women, and a lot of his style comes from those guys. I've heard an interview with a 'natural' that he went out with from the beginning, and he has a similar style where he walks up to women and says crazy stuff and has great results with it.

Henry doesn't believe that anyone in the PUA community is getting laid. I think that it would be pretty obvious that the best guys in a big community of men spending a lot of time and energy to get laid more, are getting laid...

edit:
Also, there was one guy at the bootcamp who was unfamiliar with the PU-community and who was already an outgoing, social guy who was reasonably good at pickup up women. Brad advised him to NOT read any pickup forums, because the PU community is 'for nerds, by nerds' (his words). He said that the guy would only be harmed by reading those forums.

He has also said that people should stop buying too many products from pickup gurus, because they don't improve and don't take action. Like a poker player that watches a poker coaching video every day for entertainment, but doesn't learn anything from it. People should buy one product, learn everything they can from it and PUT IT INTO ACTION, and not buy anything else until they've mastered that.

From hanging out with him, I think it's clear that he really is motivated to help men improve their lives.

No I am not retarded. I am though willing to make a prop bet with any average looking guy that they can't get a hot girl to come home with them using this as their opener. I'll even give them odds.

So the idea is to basically get a girl to go out with you by wearing them down until they simply capitulate. First, the odds that she cancels or just doesn't show up are close to certain if you need to ask her out more than once in the same conversation. If you go on PUA sites you see guys talking about high "flake" rates. The girls are not flaking they never had any intention of going out with the guy they just went along with it because giving the number or saying yes was the fastest and easiest way to end the conversation.

Second, why would anyone want to go out with a girl who isn't excited about going out with them?

First, you shouldn't act like it isn't a big deal. It shouldn't be a big deal. Second, his advice was for the same phone conversation. The example he gave involved him getting rejected at least twice and maybe three times before the girl agreed to go out with him in the same phone conversation. If a girl says no multiple times in one phone conversation to keep asking her out is going to lead to her saying yes just because it is the only way to end the phone call.


Lets look at what he is doing here. First, he puts himself in the position of the student. This is actually universal for all PUA gurus. They call sucked with women but now are amazing. You'd think at least one of them would start off with I was a "natural" let me teach you what I know. The reason they do this is so you can relate to them. They use to be like you.

The second thing he is doing is setting up that this is a long process. The results are slow to come by. He is managing your expectations because he knows this isn't going to work but he wants to delay the amount of time it takes you to realize this. That allows him to sell you more crap. Think about it he is telling you he approached 300-640 women before he got his first number and it was a fake. That you should be looking at 8+ months and 1200 hours before you see results -- in the meantime buy this new DVD.

If you go on the PUA discussion sites it is pretty clear that none of them are.

How does someone who doesn't know about PUA end up at a boot camp?

Boot camps cost several hundred and even thousands of dollars. People don't get up and just sign-up for something they know nothing about. It isn't like one day I got up and ended up at a conference for something I didn't know about especially if I was paying a decent amount of money to attend. So if this guy actually signed up for it then he was a shill.

The other scenario is that the guy didn't sign up but just wandered over to your group and if that was the case then Brad would want to get rid of him because the guy ruined the scam. I was picking up a netbook for a bedridden family member on Friday and the Future Shop salesperson didn't want me hanging around either because he was completely BSing this older couple into buying a much higher-end laptop than they needed and having me contradict him ruined his sale.

Of course. He wants to ensure that you stay loyal to his brand. He doesn't make any money if you go and buy other guru's material. He has a vested interest in getting you to focus on one brand.

I bet sports. Somehow I got on a list in the 90s and basically starting Thursday night my phone wouldn't stop ringing with people who were willing to make me rich. I had guys who would offer their first three picks for free even as long as I would agree to sign-up for the season. Guys who would offer to give me the season for free if I signed up for a week and they didn't win me money. I even had a guy who told me he had a 92% win rate and if I would just Western Union him $8000 I could have his Elite SuperLock Magic picks. Now based on your reasoning I should have sent these people money.

When did you attend his boot camp?

How much did you pay him?

How many girls have you had sex with since his boot camp?

How many girls did you have sex with before his boot camp?

my sis is staying with me a bit for this summer, so i'll be getting her perspective on this stuff for a little while. she's in her early 20s, pretty, popular (was in sororities much of her life), and is highly intelligent with regard to social behavior stuff (it's more natural for her).

anyways, i showed her a few vids of PUAs in the field (hidden camera vids), including Cajun's video where he gets girls' #s.

here's her reaction so far:

1) Alot of girls are simply nice. Friendly. She says she is and so are many of her friends. So, when in the video it seems the girls are reacting positively to the PUA, there is a decent % chance that the girl is smply being nice.

2) Alot of girls give a phone # to a guy with no intention of answering the call/text. They do this because they don't want the guy hassling them all night or because they're tipsy or who knows what. But they will often not call the guy back. My sister told me of many times where she just let her phone ring because she didn't want to talk to the guy. The point is, unless you see teh PUA making out with a girl or doing something substantial, don't assume that a undercover vid of him getting a # means much at all.

Henry,

Quick question. Guy calls you on the phone and offers 10 picks for free -- tells you to just watch the games and keep him in mind. Let's say he's 80% correct. Do you pay him anything for more picks?

Nope. I've been betting sports for a very long time. Anyone who can get a better percentage than myself doesn't need to sell picks for money. With ten free picks I'd assume it was a fluke. With five free picks or less I'd assume it was a both-sides scam.

I think this one (was gonna say sentence but your damm sentence structure means I cant :P) paragraph is more helpful then probably half (i'm not going to say its all bad) the PUA stuff out there.

Females are people too. Females like talking. Females like sex. If you go and talk to a girl, 90% of the time she will be at least friendly back (unless you tell her she reminds you of crazy horse girl). At least some decent percentage of the time, she will be up to have sex. You dont need to spit game or anything though I'm sure it can help done correctly.

While all that psych crap (negs and all that) may be successful, its also possible to sleep with girls just by talking to them like a human being. The whole forced Negs things is one thing that grinds me about PUA. Girls say stupid ****. If you cant find natural things to take the piss out of them during a conversation, get a sense of humour. It has the same effect as the 'negs' except its done in the flow of normal human conversation, and isn't offensive.