The ending btw is pretty much exactly what you've already said. Uh oh, you're recommending things that PUA does.... **** man, those garbage ass PUA techniques. Also to save you the trouble: "See! He's recommending what I said!"

Yeah see, he still has an entire system/company that incorporates all the same techniques you find lame and to not work, FOR A REASON. Clearly he's already knowledgeable about everything you said but knows that just shaking them out of it doesn't work, that's why he says he wishes he could but he can't... which is why the entire rest of the program is dedicated to the step by step way to actually get it DONE.

Pretty much that clip is the same thing you recommend as the method for improving guys lives with women.. except he dedicates that entire program to the STEP BY STEP guide for how to do it. So as you can see, that is why I recommend that program, he pretty much covers all your theologies for improving guys with women but offers a SOUND plan that can be followed and worked on entirely, like a system to guide guys on that path. You trying to shoot down the community and PUA is basically shooting down guys that are working towards getting to that point.

I'd love to hear you shoot down this "PUA" garbage as well. It's obviously the same thing you're recommending except the advice you give will not work to make it happen because that's just not how the brain works. They have to go out there and become confident in their abilities with women, walk the path, and THEN throw all the one liners/canned stuff away and just use natural game which is one of the things I've been telling you this whole time. One things for sure though, since this is a PUA product and your claim of PUA's techniques/methods being abysmal... yet this one is recommending the same thing as you shows very clearly that you were wrong about what PUA is all about.

Again that is not realistic. I could do 25 numbers in a row over six to seven weeks or even in a month if the city has an active weekday nightlife scene but you are still thinking like a PUA where it is all about volume and churning rather than being successful.

Same could be said of you only obviously you'd pay them to shoot me down. At least out of the two of us a lot more people would vouch for me not being the type that would cheat.

I'm not turning him into a ladies man overnight. I'm helping them improve who they are as a person. That they are higher value will then get them laid.

Most guys know how to flirt to some degree. They just don't have the balls to pull the trigger.

Right because I consider quality of life. Someone wants to live in a flop house, with no car, no life, eating crappy food, etc they can retire now. That isn't a meaningful definition of retirement. Much like going out and making an ass of yourself to fifty girls so that one shows interest isn't being good with women.

Right so why could numbers rather than legit numbers? We've gone in a circle on this a few times. You keep changing your position. Why count anything but legit numbers?


Can you be any more general? Is PUA actually made you more interesting you'd have specifics.

No. PUA is about trying to improve with women without changing who you are. What I'm talking about is improving as a person to make you a better person. I do nothing specifically to attract women. Attracting women is a collateral benefit. It is very different.

Because they don't use techniques. That is the whole point.

I'm friends with a lot of girls who come over and talk -- make fun of -- or who signal that they need rescuing. The only people worse than the PUA students are the guys who go after girls in packs by swarming.


Cajun is an instructor and he still hasn't gotten to this "natural game" so why would I assume that students would?

Because the only two options are making an ass of yourself like that guy in OOT who is using PUA in China to comical results and being a wallflower. You can talk to girls without leaving home with a blueprint of what you are going to say and do. I generally have no idea what I'm going to say or how I'm going to play a situation until I'm doing it.

No it doesn't. It actually says the opposite of what I said. The clip is about how you shouldn't care what people think of you which is awful advice but makes sense since if you are addressing people who have been rejected by society as that appeals to them. Did you miss the whole Fight Club stuff and the whole don't care what others think part of the clip?

I don't care about what most people think of me since most people don't matter but I do care a lot about what my peers think of me and I also care about what hot girls think of me. I care about my reputation. I care about how others see me. My whole argument is based on becoming the best possible person which is the opposite of just rejecting the social hierarchy like the clip advocates.

Did you link to the wrong clip? That clip says exactly the opposite of what I'm advocating. It actually tells guys not to try to improve themselves but instead to say **** it to society and reject social judgement.

I agree with the part where you shouldn't be a dancing bear for people but to get one fairly obvious point out in almost ten minutes and to sandwich it between two really awful points makes the clip a failure.

You are missing the point because you still think it is about what you say to a girl rather than who you are.

A little off the debate but reading this thread got me out in the field again. Instead of keeping to myself went out of my way to approach about 5 girls today to shoot the ****.

lol, so you're claiming it's not realistic, ok, guess that gives me an idea of what type of results you can get. Seems rather ironic considering how high and mighty you spoke about how getting #s is so easy that it's meanigless and now here you are wanting to set 3 as the # to prove your assertion.

Am I getting to you? Seems as though you are reverting to personal cheap shots with no grounds at all. On what basis do you even get the impression it's true? Because you have 6000 posts on an internet chatboard? That means you're less likely to cheat in a prop bet involving getting off the computer and going out there and talking to girls? You got me champ. You have no idea who would vouche for me. Since I'm not like you I'm not even going to make jabs at you on random assumptions I have no clue about. All I know about you is your post count and overly pessimistic/negative outlook on life in general.

PUA does all that along with real world application. It's kind of the difference between ofering just "Therapy" (you) and offering "Cognative Behavioral Therapy" (PUA). There's a substantial difference that you could read up on if interested.

"To some degree" implies there are varying degrees of ones ability to flirt. This means it's something tha can be improved upon such as a skill. You need to DO something to improve that skill, which is precisely what PUA has you do... go out and work on the technical aspect of doing, instead of the mental masturbation aspect of 'believing in yourself' that you recommed.

Keep using selectively negative words to describe "PUA" instead of addressing it on a core level. As far as retirement, the thread described retirement as $100k in passive income. Even though a lot of guys might not understand your negative tone with regard to PUA, it's much more obvious when referring to $100k passive income as waiting in a house to die.

Yep and back around we go. You count non legit #s because essentially getting a phone # represents the act of doing something that you were unable to do prior -- talk to a girl and put yourself in a situation where if things were done better you would have gotten a legit #. It's a step in the right direction, albeit smal.

The problem enlies in your faulty interpretation/definition of the term "PUA". As I've said countless times in this thread, PUA = a community of guys working towards a common goal of improving their social and dating lives. You asking how did "PUA" do so is basically asking me "How did you use "working towards a common goal of improving your social/dating life"(PUA) to become more interesting?". It's such a broad question but if you want more of answer, a big part of what it did to make me more interesting in general was allow me to improve my social skills in a way that enhanced my ability to communicate the things that were already interesting about me as it is. Everyone has been on the planet for X amount of years and in that time has LOTS of interesting things/stories/memories/jokes buried deep inside them but just are bad at communicating these things to a female.

PUA improves your confidence/comfort levels to the point where it allows you to show the female the interesting things about you that already exist. Since you keep asking about how PUA helps 'already social' guys out, well the guy that's social but just bad with women will get more comfortable interacting with them in general, which by itself would allow him to show her a better side of his personality that he held back prior. Keep in mind this refers to communicating with her through rapport/comfort building which a typical guy will already know how to do because he shoots the **** with his guy friends already. It doesn't mean he already knows how to flirt... he's not flirting with his guy friends, thus a lot of guys don't get much practice at it and are bad.

Actually it's not. The clip I already linked you to talks about making an identity level change and becoming a better person. As I've already mentioned as well PUA is about becoming more confident/interesting/comfortable/social/playful etc in general and with women, so yeah, same thing.

I'll put this very simple for you. You tried to argue that Non-PUA guys can improve and get better with women on their own far better than PUA guys can. The act of IMPROVING requires doing something specific to get better at it... that is a technique. Who cares what word play or interpretations you want to use to define it, that's specificaly what is being addressed here. Except when you hear technique in relation to PUA you think "corny lame routines I saw on MtV!1" but when you think "Non-PUA" guys improving themselves with all natural no techniques. Technique in the context of what we are discussing here refers to HOW do you go about getting..... better.... with.... women.
You:Normal social guys already have been going out there. Continuing to go out there without doing anything different will not improve their results. If that honestly is what you believe Non-PUA's plan for getting better with women is by just going out there then yeah, PUA blows that out of the water, easily.

Social Guy: "Man I've got a lot of friends and all but I want some more pussy in my life, I'm tired of not getting laid and having the options I want. What should I do to address this?"

Clever guy with bright idea: "Well, I dunno, we're social... lets just go out there and see what happens, that should fix it."

Social Guy: "We've been going out our whole lives..."

Clever guy with bright idea: "Well f*ck man I dunno, let's just keep doing it. Let's just not think about it like Henry says and that's how we'll improve our results."

Brilliance.

You claim Non-PUA guys are putting in equal effort to achieve these goals and still can't say how. I refuse to believe you are dense enough to think them just "going out there" is going to improve their results... let alone wth any type of significance compared to what PUA preaches. lmao.

Both guys are working to improve their results and you say Non-PUA guys have a more effective method (better word for you? lol) for doing so. Them just going out... well that's PART of the strategy they are using to improve. Good job, you've got them to recognize that leaving their house is a first step. Problem is they've done that plenty of times. HOW are these Non-PUA guys improving their results.

You don't just sit in your house one day and decide you want ot get better with women without having some sort of technique/method/strategy for improving unless you're an idiot who just thinks "ok im going to improve with women by changing nothing and doing the same things I've done my whole life already".

They make fun of what? lol, do they tell you specifically "yeah that guy was using POO-AH on me!" Yeah ok man, sure. As I said, what Artius did in the report he wrote out is exactly what PUA is. Going out, having fun, being social, flirting with girls, getting results. PUA just has a strutured way about learning how to get to that point and get better at it.

Your counter-arguments involve bitter biased subjectivity because there's nothing really left to say. You want to hold your ground on the fact that Cajun wasn't good even though it's clearly obvious he's got much better game than the average guy. This reminds me of you arguing $100k passive income isn't retirement it's just waiting in a house to die. Can't really refute close minded/negtaive subjectivity.

This has already been explainedand addressed.

You:
(Just realized now when reading back that you are claiming to change shy guys into cocky douches... fascinating you can change people who have been shy their whole lives just like that.)
Interesting that you can't find any parallels in this with the stuff talked about in that clip. Granted I think the clip is far better than anything you've recommended but you at least showed a weak low value attempt to throw out something of substance as far as recommending these guys help while discrediting the advice out there.

The clip is advocating to reject all of a persons preconceived views/opinions/beliefs about how the world works with regard to who they are... and start with a clean slate to become something better. You said in the quotes I gave above that what's holding them back is realizing where they stand on the social hiearchy and acting appropriately, that clip is talking about not allowing that belief about them being on the low end to stop them from moving towards the high end and becoming a much better person. Hence the title of the clip being "Identity level change".

If you walk into a night club where the girl does not know anything about you, she has no idea who you are. You could be an amazingly successful social guy but if you don't have the skill to communicate that to her and don't feel confident enough to show that to her then as far as she's concerned you're no different than all the other chumps asking her boring questions about her sign and where she works

According to Henry's logic, all you gotta do man is just go out there... what's all this "approaching" you speak of? Just go out there and don't think about it much.

That you think twenty five numbers is realistic tells me a lot about how clueless you are. That is one number ever sixteen minutes assuming no breaks or venue changes. That is why PUA has such a low rate of success because the guy runs around just churning volume without actually just enjoying the environment. You need to have fun. Girls will see you having fun. That is attractive. You can't have fun when you need to accomplish a task every sixteen minutes.


No. I've just been around a lot longer and I don't mean on 2P2. I've been involved with underground gambling for close to twenty years when the gambling community was tiny and I have a really good reputation. Also based on the BFI topic the money means a lot less to me than it does to you. I wasn't trying to insult you when I said that it was just a logical conclusion simply based on length of time alone. Why are you getting offended by this when I didn't get offended by you imply I would cheat?

I'm not sure what you are talking about but it really doesn't apply to anything I said. I know what certain groups value. I'll make the guy that. It has nothing to do with thinking or mental processes.

The native ability to flirt in most guys is better than what PUA offers which is pretty horrible.

I don't get the believe in yourself comment. It leads me to believe you don't understand what I'm saying at all. I don't want people to just believe in themselves. I want them to look in the mirror and be as ****'en critical as possible. Then change. It isn't some positive thinking BS. I'm talking about actually changing who you are.

$100k in passive income means you effectively have less than $30k to live off when you factor in adjusting the principle to deal with inflation and taxes. When you have no job taking up 50+ hours a week $30k doesn't really take you far.

The point that you keep missing is that it is not a positive. Talking to a girl is not an achievement if you made her feel so uncomfortable that she gave you a fake number. That you don't understand this shows me how much you lack social skills.


That might be true but that wasn't the question. I wanted to know how PUA improved the individual and made him actually more interesting. It doesn't


Rejecting other's evaluation is not becoming a better person. In fact it is becoming a worse person. Confidence has to be based in reality and what he is advocating for is delusionalism. His whole point is that other's judging you is holding you back and you should say **** it and just be confident anyway because what other's think doesn't matter. He is wrong. If someone is a loser the correct solution is to face that and stop being a loser -- you need to actually change your life -- not just ignore other people's judgement.


That doesn't happen. I don't know a single guy who is at least average looking, properly socialized, and goes out to bars / clubs frequently who doesn't get laid frequently. Not one. The only guys I can think of are two heavier guys and one guy who is really nice but we suspect he is gay and just hasn't come out yet. I don't know where you get this idea that getting laid is hard. For properly socialized guys it isn't. Now I realize for some guys who during their late teens missed out on critical steps this isn't the case but the goal is not get them to the normal guy stage not to turn them into a characture.

PUA has yet to establish anything. Every PUA I know doesn't get laid. Even you as you defend it here admit you can't get laid easily. Normal guys do.

They don't need to. They already get laid frequently. Do you go out to bars? Do you not see how much random hooking up is going on?

That wasn't what I said. PUA tells guys to change what they say and do. I say change who you are. The PUA stuff is horrible but even someone who has great game can't compete with someone who has decent game but is a higher value guy. Now this is the important part because PUA has led you to think that words will make you higher value -- they don't. You need to change who you are.

Not better than the average guy that I know. He'd likely be kicked out of a lot of places I go but in a drunk-fest bar setting he would be about average but barely. Obviously it depends on venue and I can think of a few places where he'd be the best guy there but I'm thinking of popular places.

It actually isn't hard. You'd be surprised who quickly people go from shy to megalomaniac with a little success.

What are the parallels that you see?

No. The clip said stop caring that you are on the low-end and just start acting like you are not. That doesn't change reality. I don't want someone who is on the low-end to just stop caring about how other's perceive them -- I want them to face reality -- accept it -- then actually change who they are. Do you not see the difference? The clip is encouraging people to be delusional.

Why do you think guys do this ****? Honestly where do you get these ideas about what normal guys do?

Henry, Flawless:

If any of this is real and not just internet dick-waving about a $200k wager, for a nominal fee I'll join you in a neutral location (someplace where neither of you live) for a 3-day weekend or couple/few weekends, escrow the money (with proper references, contracts, etc), help finalize the terms, pick the women, and judge the results.

I need realistic terms but under the right terms I'm in. I think $200k is higher than I'd like and I was thinking more $50-100k until Flawless quadrupled / doubled it but again if he is serious and the terms are realistic I'm open to considering it. Plus you are on a short list of 2P2 I'd actually like to meet.

What? I didn't say 25 #s in one day, we could do it over the course of the weekend. The terms if you are interested that I was referring to were we meet up with El Diablo, I chose 25 girls, you get all of their phone #s, we call all the #s up and verify that all 25 are legit #s with girls interested in continuing to talk to you. We could randomize types of venues that could be drawn at random by Diablo to ensure I don't have preplanned girls there already.

Further stipulations would obviously include making sure that you are legitimately trying to pursue them instead of a "non legit" # as you would say where you just say something like "Well, even though we've got no sparks here or anything even resembling chemistry can you at least give me your # anyway please?" Could even allow for a nonbiased judge to ensure it's a LEGIT pick up and LEGIT # where she is interested in continuing to talk. Obviously would need a bunch more stipulations to be met ONLY to prevent angling but that gives you the basic idea. I would just want fair approaches/flirting/conversation that leads to phone #s with legitimate interest. If you are interested in this I would be willing to do whatever amount you want really. These are realistic terms considering how you went on and on about being able to get phone #s with 100% consistency. I'd prefer a bigger sample size to iron out the variance (which theoretically should be fine for you and your 100%) but I'd be fine with 25.

lol, we are interested in having options correct? The more lays/gf's/options the better. If so, why are we talking about spending an entire night with 1 girl? What's that mean, you go out for 1 night and get 1 phone #? Or you just put all your eggs in one basket and hope that 1 girl decides to go home with you hopefully if all the logistics check out?

Taking that stance that that's the overall superior method is like someone 1 tabling on the easiest site online with a winrate of 10ptbb/100 vs someone 12 tabling with a winrate of 4ptbb/100 and huge rakebacks, then the guy with the higher winrate trying to argue that he's got the "higher quality winrate" even though the other guy is winning more money in the long run. Didn't you say you agreed the goal here is more lays, more gf's?

If so it's not unreasonable at all to be going out with the intentions of getting lots of options. Hell there's not a single night that goes by where I just go out and only spot one girl that I'd want to f*ck so why are we spending the entire night with one girl isntead of just working the room and having a good time as well as casting a bigger net?

My math was based on two nights at a club.

Actually I said I never get numbers. It is not my thing. I'd actually prefer the test to be getting an approved girl to come back to my hotel room. I don't like numbers and I find the whole issue of verifying if it is a legitimate number or a brush off creates unnecessary complications.

Who said that? You talk to a lot of people. Some girls and some guys. You enjoy the night. You don't go around all night just making cold calls on random girls.

I already said I don't get numbers.

I'm in a serious relationship now but when I was single it was never an issue. It isn't about putting all your eggs in one basket it is about reading the situation. You can tell if someone is going to go home with you or not.

How am I suppose to respond to this without sounding like a cocky douche? You have no idea what my numbers are like but trust me I've had sex with more girls in one year than you have in your entire life.

----------------

Regarding prop bet.

El D gets to pick the field of girls (20-25) but I'm free to go after any girl in that field. A win is her returning to the hotel room and clear indication of intentions (partial nudity for example) but I'm not going to cheat.

I have to be two for two but the nights don't have to be consecutive. Basically I want the option of Thursday and Saturday depending on the city.

Venue must have a cover, dress code, cater to a mostly white 21-26 year old clientèle, and play some form of EDM but no jungle / D&B. I'm willing to swap out EDM for Top 40 if I get a patio with street views.

I have full control over Flawless's appearance to prevent sabotage. Likewise for the same reasons you can't talk to anyone other than El D all night.

Since I won't have knowledge of the venue I want a second venue that we can switch to should the first one suck. Same night so not an attempt to get additional time. Second venue must be within a reasonable distance to minimize time loss.

You attempted to assume that you have more people that could vouche for you not being the type to cheat as though you have any idea who I am or who I know. As far as me just taking a precaution to prevent possible cheating it's not to imply that you would it's just a simple way to make it a non issue to keep the integrity of the bet.

Oh ok so you'll just make him a muppet to fit into whatever social group's values that he's trying to get into for the sake of getting the girl. At least he's staying true to him!

So you automatically assume that the girl just gave a fake # because she was "so weirded out", once again showing your bias. It's not a 'sucesss' with regard to anything other than taking baby steps. If someone wants to learn how to swim but they are scared to even step foot in the water then them being able to get in the water where they can even BEGIN to learn how to swim is progress in the right direction. The fact you don't see that shows me how negative and narcisstic your perspective on things is.

Already addressed this.

That's what the entire rest of the program entails. That particular section simply addresses one issue that holds guys back.

I've spent lots of times in bars/clubs and it's obvious that most guys in the club/bar are not going home with a girl that they just met in the club that night. Once again there are no facts to support either one of our assertions but considering all the common logistical problems that arrive with a one night stand for you to make the claim that most guys are going out there having no problem getting laid on a regular basis is absurd. Not to mention the facts that we actually DO have that say that the average man sleeps with 5-7 (something like that) female partners in his LIFETIME supports my claim.

These properly socialized guys that you are referring to that are going out surely have gone out hundreds of times from the time they are 18-24, or even if they aren't going out they have had plenty of time spent with their social circle which includes girls since they are 'properly socialized guys', well these guys aren't getting laid frequently as you suggest. You know guys that are getting laid frequently in your neck of the woods, great, facts suggest that's not the case unless you believe the greater % of our society is not properly socialized which is throwing off the statistics or you believe 5-7 diff girls in a life time is "frequently" which I suppose could be the case since you felt getting 3 #s proves your consistency rate with phone #s and women. Doesn't sound like you're even working at high volume yourself with some of the things you're saying so how on earth are you in a position to judge systems that are teaching guys how to get above average results?

Get's grimmer and grimmer the deeper we go. Please quote something I've said that has given you the impression that I can't get laid easily?

Also interesting to note that instead of supporting YOUR claim your response focuses on attempting to simply discredit mine. Let's stay on topic here for a moment.

You claimed this:
I would like for you to either confirm or deny that what you stated above is what Non-PUA's do to get better or equal results in their sex/relationship lives with women. Both groups are attempting to improve results, PUA has a VERY specific outlined plan to follow for increasing results, and you are claiming that guys just going out and not modifying their approach at all is going to be superior in terms of increasing results? Really? If what they do entails more than that then I'd love to hear you elaborate on what Non-PUA's are doing to improve at a greater rate than people taking the PUA route and what has alluded the community for all these years, because as far as I know... the way you get better with women involves talking to them. If a guy wants to improve his ability to flirt and communicate with women what does that entail for a Non-PUA since he's against "opening" girls and starting conversations (oh no, tricks and techniques!).

As I said:
If Non-PUA's are looking to increase their results with women by just going out like normal then that is the far inferior method because it produces nothing of value and evokes no changes in the person at all.

As I've already said, within a night club or bar venue, unless you are already KNOWN by the girls to have some sort of social value such as being an entertainer, knowing some girls through your social circle already, whatever, the way you create this value comes down to your communication skills for the most part. It's not what you're saying specifically but it's all your subcommunications (eye contact, body language, voice, etc) as well as your ability to communicate in an effective manner (charming, charismatic, funny, confident, etc).

How about you elaborate on what you mean by "change who you are", because you could be a rockstar for some band nobody in the joint has ever heard of and because of how that type of venue is structured it wouldn't matter to the girl. You don't just walk into a club and automatically have social value. It's produced through your direct communication and sub communications. How do you improve that? You improve your communication skills which is exactly what PUA is focused on.

If you can't even acknowledge that his communication skills are more effective in a night venue than the average male then I don'pt know what to tell you but it's not measurable and it's pretty obvious that your average guy laying 5-7 girls in his life isn't at that level.

Already been addressed. That's just one.
Simplified: He is saying that one of the steps in changing who you are (your identity) will involve being able to fully let go of all the prior beliefs/opinions you had about who you are (you referred to this as their place on the social hiearchy) and detach yourself from the person you once were, to be free to work towards becoming a much better person that you want to be.

Girls I've been with that have specifically cited me as being different from "far more fun/interesting than all the other boring guys that have tried to talk to them on the night. Social friends of mine from college that have been involved in frats in college that are then taken out of their element (where they have friends and a social circle) and placed into a bar/club to make things happen on their own and seeing what a very social/normal guy does. Pretty sure there's probably also been studies down that show the most common things/topics women hear in night venues but I'm too lazy to even search for it.

Oops, I just assumed from your reaction that you thought I wanted you to get 25 #s in one day without looking at any math.

Right, you made the claim however that guys should be getting 100% legit #s if they are doing things right. What we are addressing here is if you are able to get 100% legit #s because for you to make this claim it infers you are speaking from experience instead of pulling %s out of your ass.

Since you didn't make any claims as to actually getting girls back to your room there's no way for me to know my interest in that bet. You did make the claim that 100% legit #s is attainable however.

Regardless of whether or not that's true it would serve no legitimate argument in what we are debating here. My results are way above average, if yours are that much more above mine then congratulations you've got me beat which has nothing to do with the topic at hand of PUA being a valuable process/tool for helping guys improve their results with women. THAT is the core issue that sparked this entire debate.

lol so we went from you being able to get 100% legit phone #s to just bringing back 2 girls to your room out of 20-25. Nice dodge. As I said above:
Since I don't know your level of skill it would be foolish for me to take the bet you outlined. But since I have enough experience to know that you aren't going to be producing 100% legitimate #s as you claimed, that was the bet I had interest in.

I know your age or at least I have a rough idea of it. Length of history is what I was considering.

No she gave you a fake number because she wants to **** your brains out.


Getting in the water is a required step to swimming. Creeping out women isn't a step in getting laid. If you want to claim that just having the courage to go talk to a girl is an move forward for some guys then I can agree with that but that would be an advance for that guy if he gets a number or not. The advance is in the act of talking to her. The next step is getting a good number. There is no middle step of getting bad numbers.

So there is are clips where he teaches people how to improve themselves? Not how to talk but actually how to become higher value guys? If so I'd certainly be interested in seeing those clips.

I'd really need to see how the sample for that study was selected because I don't know any guys with numbers that low. Even girls who under generally report their number are all higher than that.

You keep quoting that 5-7 number, you refused to accept my original bet which was you picking up two out of three nights, just the way to talk in awe about picking up as if it is difficult.

The premise that non-PUA guys are trying to improve with girls is the flaw in your reasoning. They are trying to go out and have fun. They already get laid enough that they are not trying to come up with a plan to fix something that isn't broken.

It has nothing to do with talking to them. It is about you. I've said this so many times I don't know why you don't get it. It is about climbing the social hierarchy so that you are the type of guy girls want.

The bar / club scene in a given city isn't that big. If you go out all the time and are social you'll be known. Yes in a new city things are different but there are ways to quickly gain social value.

He is telling you to ignore the judgements others had. Those judgements are usually correct. By ignoring them and just saying **** it as he suggests how would that ever lead to the student changing the behaviours others judged him on?

I'm out the door in twenty minutes but will be back in the morning.