Not to belittle this sentiment in any way, because I agree with your comment that, "You can't even discuss rape anymore without the first response (and all subsequent) being about 1) falsely-accused men; and 2) how nobody talks about them. " And I find that pretty disgusting.

I don't see how women's self-doubt about reporting rape is the fault of douchebag dudes, though?

And did you really just imply that being a man is advantageous, because you can get away with raping chicks? Just because most women don't report rapes, doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for rape. When you say you wouldn't "report" it, do you mean that you wouldn't even tell your brother, dad, or male friend? If I were accused of rape, I'd be at least as scared of that, as the law.

I also don't believe the concept of douchiness is particularly applicable to behavior such as RAPE. That's like calling a murderer an A-hole.

Either you're speaking in hyperbole, or you should find some less judgmental friends, IMHO.

The reason that rape shield laws had to be put in place was because of that very reason.

No. That was not how I read it. The advantage of being a guy is that we live with a perpetual clean slate. I can have pretty much any transgression I want and with a few exceptions I'm fine. When you are female it is completely different. You do one thing that society views as unladylike and that will still be discussed a decade after.

It has less to do with who your friends are as society. There is a girl I have never met or if I have met I don't know it is the same girl. Regardless, many many years ago she did something stupid at a party when she was likely drunk and high. This was so long ago that VHS was still the media on which it was captured. I don't know her yet I know this information about her even though it happened well over a decade ago. Had I done something similar no one would talk about it. I personally don't judge her because whatever we all do stupid **** but it still sucks that she has to be judged by people like this and know that people still talk about that.

I can think of a few dozen similar situations some going back fifteen years or more. The reality is that there is a massive double standard and that guys can do whatever they want and wake up the next day with a blank slate while a girl will carry with her everything she has ever done unless she moves to a new city and completely starts over.

serious question henry17 do you not feel a bit of judgement with girls honestly or do you just hide it in the sense of never discussing it or showing it?

It isn't that I'm not judgmental but that I hold girls to the same standard as guys. So if it is fine for a guy it is fine for a girl.

I didn't say it was the fault of douchebag dudes. Keeping it to oneself would arise from fear of the consequences if the accusation doesn't stick from the outset through to a conviction. You'd lose a good chunk of your friends, most of your family (in the instance of a relative attacker), maybe your job in a small town or if we're talking about a coworker. At best you'd be considered a psycho, needy, Munchhausen's sufferer until you moved away. So unless it's like a "T.V." rape, the risk of napalming your life and failing to convict would be weighed against the value of keeping your life intact and just dealing with it. That's societal douchebaggery at work.

Hah -- no, but that would have made for a colourful conversation, wouldn't it? My point was that compared to whatever (hot) women "get away with," it's dwarfed by what we don't.


That's exactly what it means. It's not like rapists eventually crumble under the weight of their own consciences.


No brother, and my dad and I weren't close, so speaking only for myself, I'd likely as not take my leave of the entire social group and start new somewhere else. Not that I wouldn't consider other, more obviously rational options, just that we all know there's a small window afterward to start the legal machine going and if you miss it, the potential for a conviction diminishes while the damage to your life stays the same. As much as I like to think of myself as a level-headed person, I can't deny my capacity to sleepwalk through the next few days and assume I've missed the bus. (n.b. I'm thinking of younger me in all this.)

Who knows, but really it serves to focus what is otherwise a visceral feeling you wouldn't be aware of if you weren't subject to it: As a woman, what you do is what you are, forever.

im with the get new friends group.

the stuff alot of my female friends have done is both hilarious and terrible, and in my circle of friends at least, it gets laughs not shame, exact same as for the guys. like i cant imagine anything they could do that would follow them round for years that wouldnt also follow them around as a guy.

i know that i only really know tolerant people, but still . . .

That is a very unrealistic view of the world. I've lived in quite a few different cities and within each city I have multiple sub-groups of friends ranging from strippers / criminals to very successful professionals and this is a constant. People keep saying friends which leads me to believe you might be interpreting it as the core friends when what is actually meant is the scene of people who just all know each other. If you are even remotely social then you can connect yourself to anyone else who is even remotely social by at most three degrees of separation and usually much less. These are not necessarily friends but they are people who you know and who know you. The group of people is what keeps a female's history always there ready to embarrass her decades later because she did something which in reality no one should give a **** about but they do because it allows them to do what people love to do which is gossip and pull down people who they view as having something undeserved.

Hrm.

Thanks for the replies, Henry and PR.

Hi. I have a question for DonkBluffer.
I'm thinking about signing in the 30/30 club. Since you are (if I didn't misunderstood you) a graduate of it, I would like to have your impressions about it (and what it has become, since it may have change a little).
Also, are the coaches truly following students (I mean answering questions, for example) ?
So in one sentence : Is it worth it ? (or rather, For which type of people do you think it is worth ?).

Regards

This is such an interesting post, I'm going to read it from page 1 to 109. Both sides are compelling, although I do see a lot of prejudice.

I've skimmed the past few pages and the tone/way of conversing of most of the people supporting PUA is eerily similar to the "millionaires" here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayBt...next=1&index=9

It's a good series, watch all the 5 parts, I would be surprised if people did not see the connection.

Sorry for responding so late! You can't receive PMs apparently, so I'll reply here.

In short I think you should join. You get plenty of attention from coaches. You ask for which type of people it's worth it. It's worth it for men that are prepared to get off their ass and start getting out of their comfort zone and actually work at being better with women, in stead of listening to stuff on your computer. I actually was not one of those men back then, because I didnt do my approaches and didnt finish the program. But a few months after my experiences with Brad P (I also did a bootcamp with him) and the 30/30 club I had many breakthroughs.

Double standard for men versus women is humanity's genetic response to the problem of paternity confidence. If you want to get rid of it, you'll have to breed it out.

What? I didn't know this! All this time I've been watching my actions like big brother's got a monitoring device on me. I'll be sure to use this newfound knowledge this weekend, in Vegas!

Thank you!