THE meditation thread

[El Diablo]

raptor,

I think you might also find it interesting to look into Pranayama, which is all about breathing technique. Some very interesting stuff.

[lavaman]

Originally Posted by manupod

Question-

Thoughts on keeping a journal for this, so I have an idea of what worked for me/ didn't work, how each session went, things to try, etc? Is that just overkill and defeating the point of something that's supposed to be simple and relaxing?

By reading some of the "masters" you get the impression they strive for simplicity and elegance (in the mathematical sense). But "simple" and "easy" are pretty different things. Also, it's not necessarily "about" relaxing. Seems to me writing things down would help, at least your focus if nothing else. It can also help crystallize your thoughts and feelings about what you're doing.

[Fletcher19]

***, wow ty for the link, I am living in phuket for the rest of this year and was planning on doing a retreat like this but haven't researched it thoroughly yet. Could you elaborate on what your typical day was like while you were there?

I like raptor/many others have alot of trouble staying in the present and it feels as though my mind actually has a mind of its own which is obviously pretty ridiculous.

I first started reading about zen sometime last summer and bought http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Specia.../dp/0062511173 (great book)

i am still in no routine as sorts with regards to meditation yet however.

oh yeah great thread

[amplify]

Fletcher19,

If Vipassana is really what you want to do with your time, you can read an account of my first 10-day Vipassana course in the archives here. It was really rough for me. Then I did a second one 3 months later and it was like falling off a log, so it's all about perspective. The first one might have permanently altered my personality.

You can take the exact same course I took in Thailand, see here. Goenka has a really good system going, and his courses are very rigorous.

[Morrek]

Originally Posted by heater

There was a thread in OOT about this awhile back. There are two books that Adsman recommended: "The Miracle of Mindfulness" and "I am That." I bought them both last fall and they are awesome.

The Miracle of Mindfulness

I am That

Got this on another forum, where I think they said they released i am that for free now or whatever? I'm not sure so if mods don't like it, delete

http://home.earthlink.net/~grharmon/I_Am_That.pdf

Anyways that book doesn't have that much to do with meditation, more to do with how life works and how it's really all an illusion etc. I've only read about 1/5th of it and have heard most of the stuff before, but it's always cool to hear it in a new way. I would definitely recommend it after having meditated for a while and would like to get to know yourself and the world better

[***]

Originally Posted by Fletcher19

***, wow ty for the link, I am living in phuket for the rest of this year and was planning on doing a retreat like this but haven't researched it thoroughly yet. Could you elaborate on what your typical day was like while you were there?

Lots of people have asked me about it, so I will probably write a trip report after all. The short answer to your question is just to check the schedule on the Suan Mokkh site. You get up very early, and meditate or listen to lectures about meditation and Buddhism for the bulk of the day. Some people find this difficult, but if you approach it with the right mindset 10 days feels pretty short.

[greg nice]

*** i await your trip report. ive read amplifys already. i am considering doing one of these 10 day retreats.

i am still unclear though about the 'goal' to it all. its like, what is so advantageous of living in an enlightened state rather than my current? if i go to thialand, i expect to be wow'd or moved in some way by the presence of the teachers, which would motivate me to pursue and endure the days..

[***]

Originally Posted by greg nice

i am still unclear though about the 'goal' to it all. its like, what is so advantageous of living in an enlightened state rather than my current?

I'm told you will experience the cessation of (mental) suffering. I don't really want to get tangled up into the debate about the benefits of enlightenment or whether it is worth working to achieve. Most people who practice meditation will never achieve enlightenment, so I don't think it should be the reason you take up meditating. (This is probably in conflict with Buddhist teachings.) There are plenty of benefits to meditation before enlightenment, like improved health, calmer mental state, etc.

Always looking to some future time when your life will be filled with unending joy as Amplify used to is just trading one kind of mental suffering for another. It isn't really living in the present. For me the test was this, do I feel better mentally and physically when I meditate? I do, so I do.

Originally Posted by greg nice

if i go to thialand, i expect to be wow'd or moved in some way by the presence of the teachers, which would motivate me to pursue and endure the days..

Don't expect this. As with all things in life motivation comes from yourself. Yes you can find good teachers, but they can't sit and meditate for you.

[amplify]

or, you could just have a stroke

[demon102]

I read a book a while back called the silva method, it had a lot of different things going on in it like self hypnosis and other things that I dont remember right now. It was created by Jose Silva that was an electrician before he got into some self help stuff. He decided to measure the electronic pulse in the brain in differing states. Now I dont remember the actual numbers but it was like normal awake state was 50 beats(electronic pulses) per second and sleeping was like 8 beats per second. Then there is a state I think was called the beta level which is around 16 beats/s and there are other levels but none that are important to this discussion. The beta level is basically what is considered the meditative state where the mind is relaxed and pretty much open. This guy created his on practice(meditation) of getting to this state where he would slowly count backwards from 100-0 and u do this 2-3 times a day. Every consecutive week you take away 10 numbers to count backwards down to 10 and when u get that experienced u can count backwards from ten and get to the alpha level cuz after that amount of practice the mind more easily gets to alpha. Ive been doing that exercize for a couple of years now and it is really effective. I can do the 10-1 and be completely relaxed but I do the 100-1 about once a day and it helps to just relax me and just put me in a much better mood ect. Ive done other types of meditations but it always just felt kinda unnatural and just didnt stick. This one is just so simple and effective that it stuck like glue. Every now and then I do some other types of meditation in addition to it and definitely had some very interesting experiences which for right now at least is to much to describe at this time. I also do the 10-1 countdown to open my mind up for when I do affirmations which Ive used to quit ciggerettes and smoking weed as well as some other personal issues. Its weird that no one ever talks about affirmations though but I can see a lot of people being weirded out by them. The one thing that sticks out that I benefit from this practice is that before I started doing this exercise or I skip a day or two of doing it, I have the personality where when something doesnt go right like for example "I make eggs over easy and the yoke breaks and it turns into scrambles eggs" I'd usually go ape**** and get pissed and everything. When I meditate regularly I see these kinds of situations in a much more objective state and dont have the same emotional response. Just think of this type of impact it can have if ur a poker player where u deal with getting bad beats regularly.

[demon102]

Originally Posted by amplify

The problem here is that people have ridiculous models of what enlightenment is. I know that I used to think that life would be full of joy, that I would have special mental powers, that I would ascend to Nirvana on clouds of bliss. That's all religious bull. So you are exactly correct, don't get your hopes up, don't project some future state where all your problems are solved and life is bliss. All you can do is gain distance from it, get perspective on it, see it for what it is.

If you keep doing teh techniques you can have an enlightentment experience where you see the interconnectedness of everything, where you lose the experience of a separate self and gain a kind of cosmic perspective, but that's just another experience, and it will go away.

Then you're enlightened and life still sucks.

LOL QFT

[demon102]

Originally Posted by lavaman

That's cool. Just wanted to remind that the purpose of meditation is usually to practice paying attention, rather than relaxation per se.

In my mind the purpose of meditation is to stop the mind from running its usual programs (get it? its a computer analogy) and get it down where the accumulated concious filters are pretty much gone to help u think in different ways. Also it a hella effective way to just mello out man.....

[The once and future king]

Then you're enlightened and life still sucks.

Life dosnt suck to someone who is enlightened. LDO. Actual enlightenment is beyond suck.

Oh having a practise that you do on a regular basis is great and you will notice and experience lots of great benefits in numerous way, depending on what that practise is (vipassana ftw) but unless you are prepared to go sit in a monestary for the rest of your life and dedicate your life to meditation dont expect to get within a million miles of enlightenment, that **** is hard.

http://www.dhamma.org/

[demon102]

Originally Posted by The once and future king

Life dosnt suck to someone who is enlightened. LDO. Actual enlightenment is beyond suck.

Oh having a practise that you do on a regular basis is great and you will notice and experience lots of great benefits in numerous way, depending on what that practise is (vipassana ftw) but unless you are prepared to go sit in a monestary for the rest of your life and dedicate your life to meditation dont expect to get within a million miles of enlightenment, that **** is hard.

http://www.dhamma.org/

Can somone tell me what enlightenment is? I used to think its like u reach a state of bliss or somthing like that but after years of meditating and doing other exercises I just think is a fairy tail or another way to say it a bunch of monks are lying.

[ike]

Originally Posted by demon102

Can somone tell me what enlightenment is? I used to think its like u reach a state of bliss or somthing like that but after years of meditating and doing other exercises I just think is a fairy tail or another way to say it a bunch of monks are lying.

i'm not exactly a scholar of buddhism, but it was my understanding that enlightenment as a binary state, total enlightenment, was something that only the Buddha had attained. monks might be more enlightened than lay people, but i think the sort of total enlightenment thats being talked about is not something that living people claim to have achieved. someone more enlightened than me should correct me if i'm wrong.