THE meditation thread

[garcia1000]

You can't expect to try hard and succeed at meditation though. It's like that Zen buddhism thing I read once...

A student asked a Zen master how long it would take to achieve enlightenment at a normal page.

"Five years," the master said.

That was too long for him. So the student asked the master, "What if I studied hard and worked on it?"

"Ten years," the master said.

The student was puzzled. "What if I dedicated myself day and night to this task, and did everything I could?"

"Twenty years," the master said.

"WTF?" the student said.

[Burlap]

Originally Posted by Luckboxer

Most people who try diet and exercise will "get frustrated/give up/feel like a failure."

Just like exercise, meditation requires a commitment and takes time and effort before you begin to see results.

Yes, yes, I understand.

But I'm referring to the NORM. Not the exception. For someone like raptor, he should be focusing on the incredible opportunity that has been presented to him instead of wasting time on a very, very slim chance that he'll actually "get it"/stick with it. That's all. If I had to guess, I'd say that 95+% of people who go down that road wind up with a big "**** THIS!"

[hexag1]

Sam Harris' listing of his favorite eastern philosophy/mediation books

The Experience of Insight is the best intro.

[raptor517]

Originally Posted by Burlap

Yes, yes, I understand.

But I'm referring to the NORM. Not the exception. For someone like raptor, he should be focusing on the incredible opportunity that has been presented to him instead of wasting time on a very, very slim chance that he'll actually "get it"/stick with it. That's all. If I had to guess, I'd say that 95+% of people who go down that road wind up with a big "**** THIS!"

so what should i be doing instead? spending all my money as fast as possible?

[Burlap]

Originally Posted by raptor517

so what should i be doing instead? spending all my money as fast as possible?

I dunno. I've never had that kind of money. Just saying that meditation is an often abandoned path, and from what I can tell, something that's somehow supposed to make up for a lack of success. In other words stay hungry.

[JacKnight21]

get the book "the Relaxation Response" by benson its a short 1hr read and pretty much tells you everything you need to know in a logical/scientific basis. if you dont believe in science look in the mirror for 30 min and repeat the mantra "I am not a fish"

[inferno]

Lol at the people thinking that allot of money = being happy. Why shoudnt rich people meditate or being able to be spiritual in some way. One wise monk was asked one time if he would want to contemplate the poor or the rich, he chose the rich because they already know that money doesnt solve all their problems. Why seek something from outside (travel etc) if you can find it within yourself. Meditation is just bringing yourself back into your own body. 'I am not rich so I meditate instead' sounds silly to me.

[adsman]

It took me a while but I found my old How to meditate thread.
This may help out a few of the questions.

Glad you guys liked the books.

ads.

[Burlap]

Originally Posted by inferno

Lol at the people thinking that allot of money = being happy. Why shoudnt rich people meditate or being able to be spiritual in some way. One wise monk was asked one time if he would want to contemplate the poor or the rich, he chose the rich because they already know that money doesnt solve all their problems. Why seek something from outside (travel etc) if you can find it within yourself. Meditation is just bringing yourself back into your own body. 'I am not rich so I meditate instead' sounds silly to me.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and I agree with you. I'm just giving fair warning to people who get the idea that chasing enlightenment is any different from chasing wealth/success/status. It's all rainbows. "It's the search that keeps us going"

[DerekJCEX]

I've recently become very interested in meditation after reading "Evolve Your Brain" by Joe Dispenza. The book is pretty much about the science of the relationship between the conscious and subconscious mind.

After reading the book, I looked into ways of accessing the subconscious mind and training it to improve certain aspects of my life. 4 ways that I know of doing this are through meditation, self hypnosis, auto suggestion (pretty much self-hypnosis), and mental rehearsal. Of these ways, mediation and self hypnosis seem like the best methods to get my brain into the Theta state. The Theta state is when your mind is so focused that you can actually access your sub conscious mind and work with it.

I'd like to hear about the differences between mediation and self hypnosis. I've yet to experience either (besides coming in and out of sleep), but from what I understand, meditation is getting your mind into the Theta state in order to reflect on your life, your self, and whatever the **** else is out there with absolute focus. Self-hypnosis is getting your brain into the Theta state to train your subconscious mind to learn something specific like how to deal with tilt, quitting cigarettes, etc.

For those that have done both, if you could explain some of the differences between the two methods that'd be cool.

Also for those of you that think self hypnosis is creepy or weird, just do some research and you'll see that it's pretty much like mediation. It's just another way to get your brain into a state of complete focus.

[BahhGawd]

Meditation is cool, but not the most applicable to your situation, Raptor.

What you need is a paradigm shift.

Get the Practicing the Power of Now audiobook by Eckhart Tolle. You can get the written book, but IMO, hearing his voice when he's delivering the message makes it 10X more effective.

I'm not usually a fan of "hippy ****", but this book will seriously change your life.

[C-Viggity]

Originally Posted by raptor517

ya im the same way im a nerd and like to study up on stuff before doing it so i have at least some idea of what will come. today, i sat on the edge of my bed cross legged staring at a certain point on one of the paintings in my room, trying very hard to focus on that exact point and focus on my breathing. it was weird, i almost got short of breath because i was focused so much on trying to breathe? it was a weird feeling, not sure i liked it, i dno if that happens to other ppl.

something that happened while i was doing this; randomly like 15 different thoughts would fly through my head, but wouldnt make any sense because i was trying to block them out. it would be like 4 things i was thinking about earlier would all fly out at me at the same time, and throw off my focus, though i wouldnt really focus on any one thing, just the act of thinking about ALL of them temporarily would mess me up. i did this for about 10 minutes, and it was fairly relaxing though frustrating. i get frustrated easily when i dont do things perfectly. i suppose thats what all this 'practice' you guys preach about is for. aynways, im going to try to do this every day and see how it goes, ill report back. thanks for all the userful advice so far! i like what i see.

YO.

I took an Eastern Philosophy course with a specific focus on Zen buddhism in school and did some long meditation sessions with different masters.

One thing they all usually noted is that it's quite an uncomfortable process when you are beginning to meditate. The position it is recommended to sit in is not natural, and for someone who sits in a comfy computer chair for hours on end, it will be difficult to adapt to. However it's recommended to keep your back straight as sitting on a couch or whatever might cause you to slouch and become sleepy or unfocused.

I have the same issue with the thoughts and shortness of breath. Although I rarely meditate anymore, it still happens when I do. It's really neat when you are trying to completely focus on one thing like breathing, and it becomes difficult to control, when it is normally a simple function of the body that requires no mental attention.

One of the more amazing things to me was how the "15 thoughts" or whatever, starts to become "10", "5", "2". Not literally, but you understand. The bombardment of outside factors becomes less immediate and less difficult to avoid the more you practice.

Hope it all works. Maybe you should go to Thailand like the guy above. You'd probably enjoy yourself more than you do playing pokers. Holla

[heater]

Originally Posted by Burlap

Yes, yes, I understand.

But I'm referring to the NORM. Not the exception. For someone like raptor, he should be focusing on the incredible opportunity that has been presented to him instead of wasting time on a very, very slim chance that he'll actually "get it"/stick with it. That's all. If I had to guess, I'd say that 95+% of people who go down that road wind up with a big "**** THIS!"

Yes. Knowing that you will fail because others before you have failed is the key to enlightenment. This is the answer to all of your problems. Don't try. After all, raptor could lose like 10 minutes a day for the next few weeks before he figures out it isn't going to "work" for him. The last thing raptor's got is free time.

Also, the NORM is that most fail with diet and exercise goals as well, and it isn't close. This is so LDO that it goes without saying. So turn on the TV and order a pizza.

I don't know why you arguing against meditation, but you are making less and less sense with each post.

[lavaman]

Originally Posted by SlowHabit

Where did I say "let your eyes focus on something and think of random things?"

"...while closing your eyes about 90% so you can focus on something in front of you. Do not completely close your eyes because your mind will end up wandering somewhere. Focus on your pattern of breathing. You will find yourself thinking about random things and it's normal when that happens"

So, do not close our eyes because our mind will wander. Rather, leave our eyes open so we can focus on something, and then normally we will find ourselves thinking about random things.

Sorry, I still don't understand.

[lavaman]

Originally Posted by aejones

i think i have too much ADD to do this

I would think if you have ADD, you especially should be doing this.

Originally Posted by aejones

... but i kind of like the idea of the relaxation and i love massages, etc.

question: is meditating just kind of a state of mind? (stupid question, idc though) i mean, sometimes when my head it down on my desk and i can't remember what happend for the last 30 minutes in class- was that meditation? if i completely black out, but feel like i'm not sleeping- what are these gray areas?

i'm very intrigued by sort of the pathway between relaxation, meditation, and actual sleep. i think it's very cool waht the mind can do-- and i obviously enjoy when i'm experiencing total relaxation and am not thinking about anything.

Well, frankly I think you're confusing relaxation and sleepiness or "zoning out". Meditation isn't about zoning out. They recommend you do it while relaxed and calm, and yet alert. Think the scene in Star Wars Episode 1 where Qui-Gon is separated by that force field from Darth Maul, so he "meditates". Calm, at peace, but on high alert.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot that can be gained by zoning out, napping, and sleeping and dreaming. But it really isn't what meditation is about. Meditation is about focus, and practicing avoiding distraction.

You pick a time when you're not likely to fall asleep or get drowsy because that defeats the purpose. The purpose is to practice bringing your attention back to something as your attention wanders. Let it wander, then become aware that it wandered, then bring it back. That's basically how you start practicing paying attention. I don't think it matters greatly what you pay attention to, but since you breathe all the time, that's a convenient thing. Also paying attention to it tends to make you aware of tension, so it's a cumulative thing. You become more calm because your breathing becomes more measured and less shallow (this is a circular phenomenon), which allows you to pay attention better. Unless you fall asleep of course :-)