David,

Since I sent you that pm last month I mentioned meditation in passing saying I wasn't into it. I took my own advice and started doing basic breathing meditation and its great.

http://www.how-to-meditate.org/breat...ditations.htm/

Follow that simple outline for a pretty simple way to start and I'd suggest rereading my pm if you still have it.

John

This brings to mind something that I'm surprised hasn't come up yet, and I can't believe I forgot in my first reply. Once you have an understanding of the basic technique, the best way to learn about meditation is practice. A monk once explained to me that it is like riding a bicycle. You can watch other people ride, have other people show you how to ride, read anything you want about riding a bicycle, but in order to learn you have to get on and do it for yourself without anyone's help.

I don't think a forum would really be that useful in learning, just find simple instructions somewhere and start from there. The learning is in the doing.

I'm sure you're right, but this is so antithetical to how I normally learn, and learn best. Oh well, I guess I'll have to just suck it up and start doing. Maybe I'll get back to this thread with a TR if anything interesting comes of it.

was it vipassana meditation?

Yes. I went to the retreat hosted at Suan Mokkh in Thailand. The instruction there is on Anapanasati - mindfulness of breathing. I might do a trip report if people are really interested, but I think I would have difficulty expressing the most profound elements of the experience.

I mentioned that I went to a retreat - this is an excellent way to learn if you don't feel comfortable starting on your own. The one I went to was in Thailand, but you can find them in N. America and all over the world. They aren't all 10 days long; in fact you are more likely to find a weekend retreat. You can also just look for local meditation seminars or buddhist temples that offer instruction.

rap,

Just do more blow.

And btw, I always have imagined that getting a daily massage would be really helpful for keeping my mind at rest after a stressful day or work or whatever. Is that something you do already?

(I don't think that is better than meditation but at the very least it's pretty balla, )

Yugoslav

i got the first real massage of my life 2 days ago. it was wonderful.

ya im the same way im a nerd and like to study up on stuff before doing it so i have at least some idea of what will come. today, i sat on the edge of my bed cross legged staring at a certain point on one of the paintings in my room, trying very hard to focus on that exact point and focus on my breathing. it was weird, i almost got short of breath because i was focused so much on trying to breathe? it was a weird feeling, not sure i liked it, i dno if that happens to other ppl.

something that happened while i was doing this; randomly like 15 different thoughts would fly through my head, but wouldnt make any sense because i was trying to block them out. it would be like 4 things i was thinking about earlier would all fly out at me at the same time, and throw off my focus, though i wouldnt really focus on any one thing, just the act of thinking about ALL of them temporarily would mess me up. i did this for about 10 minutes, and it was fairly relaxing though frustrating. i get frustrated easily when i dont do things perfectly. i suppose thats what all this 'practice' you guys preach about is for. aynways, im going to try to do this every day and see how it goes, ill report back. thanks for all the userful advice so far! i like what i see.

i think i have too much ADD to do this, but i kind of like the idea of the relaxation and i love massages, etc.

question: is meditating just kind of a state of mind? (stupid question, idc though) i mean, sometimes when my head it down on my desk and i can't remember what happend for the last 30 minutes in class- was that meditation? if i completely black out, but feel like i'm not sleeping- what are these gray areas?

i'm very intrigued by sort of the pathway between relaxation, meditation, and actual sleep. i think it's very cool waht the mind can do-- and i obviously enjoy when i'm experiencing total relaxation and am not thinking about anything.

i feel like i'm too lazy to actually 'learn' how to meditate tho, prob a good idea for a thread and i hope i keep up on it, since it seems like something you "can't do wrong."

You shoudnt try to block your thoughts out, just notice that you are thinking w/o judging it and take a few (2-4) deep breaths and start over. You also shoudnt judge your meditation wheter its good or bad, it is what it is.

Yeah don't try to block your thoughts. Let them go away instead. Try this


I will face my thoughts.
I will permit them to pass over me and through me.
And when they have gone past I will turn the inner eye to see their path.
Where the thoughts have gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

raptor,

Meditation/Zen/Bhudism isn't for everyone, and I'm inclined to believe especially for people like yourself. You're driven and successful. The whole "be-in-the-now" stuff almost seems to kill ambition and causes a lot of people to go bat**** insane. Enlightenment is just a bowel movement. It's just trading one far-off goal for another. Another Matrix within a Matrix.

You have the time and money to pamper yourself/travel. I would gladly exchange what I have for that. Buy cool stuff, travel, get massages, play big tourneys, profit.

meditation is more about turning off thought, or at least controlling it in a very definite way. when you had your head down, it is more likely that your mind was wandering aimlessly, so aimlessly that nothing you thought was worth remembering.

when you meditate, your focus is so fixed that you don't think, and yet you remain in state of awareness.

I disagree, I'm very goal-oriented but I like meditation.

Although, it's true that I'm not a crazy hardworking person. I traded in a high-paying job with long hours for a slightly lower-paying job with normal hours doing what I like.

I'm pretty much where you're at Garcia, But as I said - it's not for everyone. If I had a either lots of money, or the opportunity raptor has at the moment. I would waste very little of it sitting in a dark room telling myself that everything's gonna be ok.

Sooo not meditation.

Its sort of like saying, if I was rich, I wouldn't waste time working out. Working out allows you to enjoy the rest of your life more, so does meditating.

I choose to have both! Works for me.

There's a big difference. A good diet/exercise will invariably improve quality of life, whereas most people who try meditation get frustrated/give up/feel like a failure, and spend the rest of their lives lying to themselves/others about the wonders of meditation.

Most people who try diet and exercise will "get frustrated/give up/feel like a failure."

Just like exercise, meditation requires a commitment and takes time and effort before you begin to see results.

You can't expect to try hard and succeed at meditation though. It's like that Zen buddhism thing I read once...

A student asked a Zen master how long it would take to achieve enlightenment at a normal page.

"Five years," the master said.

That was too long for him. So the student asked the master, "What if I studied hard and worked on it?"

"Ten years," the master said.

The student was puzzled. "What if I dedicated myself day and night to this task, and did everything I could?"

"Twenty years," the master said.

"WTF?" the student said.

Yes, yes, I understand.

But I'm referring to the NORM. Not the exception. For someone like raptor, he should be focusing on the incredible opportunity that has been presented to him instead of wasting time on a very, very slim chance that he'll actually "get it"/stick with it. That's all. If I had to guess, I'd say that 95+% of people who go down that road wind up with a big "**** THIS!"

Sam Harris' listing of his favorite eastern philosophy/mediation books

The Experience of Insight is the best intro.

so what should i be doing instead? spending all my money as fast as possible?

I dunno. I've never had that kind of money. Just saying that meditation is an often abandoned path, and from what I can tell, something that's somehow supposed to make up for a lack of success. In other words stay hungry.