But the most she was texting, calling etc is the day she left my apartment, then tried to get in touch with me the next weekend but I couldn't meet up. So that never made sense to me. Why wouldn't that interest regress at that point if she was weirded out? Nobody has been able to answer that. I'm not arguing, just trying to make sense of it to see if that is what it is.

I remember reading something that was pretty profound to me at the time when I was still in the supplicative, Nice Guy mode that a lot of guys seem to go through. Basically the advice was that women love emotion, whether it be good or bad. The reason that the *******s get women is that even though they're eliciting mostly negative emotions from a girl, there are still emotional feelings there. Obviously it's better to be a guy who is getting positive feelings in a girl, but the main point is that it is actually better to get a negative emotional response than no response at all (i.e. boring, agreeable but not really building on the connection in any way, etc.).

J,

NYC is maybe the best place in the world for a guy to meet tons of awesome girls if he's confident and secure, but just about the worst if he's not.

Also, 100% agree w/ Ping re: your interaction w/ girl once she came back to your place.

The girls in NYC are not the best girls or "awesome" overall. I've spent time in other cities/areas and the NYC girls have mostly ugly personalities and are extremely stuck up, closed off, and pompous.

I've attempted to date girls that are not that but haven't found many.

Girls in the south and midwest, from experience, are much more friendly and open to having any type of conversation.

In fact the best girls I've met in NYC come from those areas.

Diablo, you live in San Francisco, I live here.What makes you think you know what goes on here on the weekends?

I generally don't care enough to respond to posters like JWitt, but you're really ruining this thread for a lurker like myself. You're doing the typical 2p2 response, you've got a problem you come to a thread to elicit responses and instead of listening to them all you do is argue against them.

It's pretty clear you're in denial about yourself, your prospects, and NYC. Do us all a favor, for the next couple days just reread or actually read the well thought out posts you've received ITT and don't immediately think about an argumentative response. Actually READ everyone's posts and report back.

J,

Because I have lived there, have spent tons of time there, go there regularly, have lots of single friends there in their mid-20s to early 30s, and know tons and tons of people from their 20s through 40s there, in professions ranging from acting to restaurants to software to finance to fashion.

I have lived and dated girls in Texas, Georgia, Chicago, SF, Colorado, and New York. NYC is just a hotbed of smart, successful, attractive women. I haven't been there in 2012, but the last time I was there for a while was in November 2011. I spent half my time in Tribeca and the other half in Brooklyn. Both places were still chock full of attractive, interesting women. Maybe they all left in December? As I stated before, I'm not a big bar pickup guy, but NYC is one of the easiest places anywhere to strike up conversations with girls at a bar.

FWIW, women in Texas and Georgia are also very hot, but on average far less interesting/accomplished than equally hot women in NYC.

J,

As I wrote earlier in this thread, it really sounds like you are doing NYC all wrong. You are a young guy w/ a good job living in Manhattan, right? It simply doesn't get much easier than that to meet women. But you handicap yourself w/ a combination of intense judgement and jealousy, complete inflexible ideas of how everything should go, unrealistic expectations, and perhaps the activities you do, places you hang out, and people you are friends with.

Where do you hang out? I don't care about the specific places unless you care to mention them, but what types of places, what neighborhoods, etc? Bars, restaurants, clubs, parties, what?

Are you going to go out w/ the two guys who volunteered to take you out with them?

lol

I go primarily to bars all over downtown (East Village, West Village, Alphabet City). No place has been particularly fun. The bars just don't have a fun atmosphere or vibe to them to like other places I have spent time (Boston, Jersey Shore, Chicago, Cali). Walking into a bar, spending $6-7 for a beer, and standing there talking among your friends because everyone is closed off isn't that fun.

When you visited what did you find appealing? It's the same thing every weekend. There's no variety to the nightlife here.

I feel like every place I go in NYC (take any bar in the East/West Village, and I've been to practically everyone) is compiled of sectioned off groups of people where the guys in the group "protect" the girls in their group from having random guys talking to them. I believe myself and my friends are even guilty of this because it's social commonplace here to immediately give a hard time to the random guy or two trying to come into our social circle of 10 to try and pick up a girl.

I had a great time in Chicago and down the shore because it's just more of a "mixed" environment where everyone is having fun.

NYC is like no other place for this type of behavior. Ask Chitown, he had similar feelings a few weeks back about Philadelphia.

That's a point I want to make. I feel like I'm not the only one. My friends all say the same thing as me. We don't like going out here. And in witnessing what goes on it seems like nobody is having fun here when going out. I get the feeling of "man this play is dead" and everyone seems miserable.

Chicago/shore is just completely different. that's a good time, it just feels different.

Where were you going in Chicago to pick up chicks?

There is no variety to nightlife in NYC? And we're trolling?

Here is what is going on. The average chick in NYC, taken looks in to account, is of a higher quality than the average chick in Chicago. Better education, better SOH, better dressed, better taste in the arts, better career prospect, better friends and she has a better selection of potential suitors too. So when you go up to some 7 in Chicago, of course she's going to be more 'friendly' than a 7 in NYC. You interpret that as 'Chicago girls are more friendly than NYC girls' when really a Chicago 9 = a NYC 7 and if you tried to mack on a Chicago 9 they'd give you the same brush off the NYC girls, and if you try to mack on NYC 5s you'll suddenly find that Manhattan girls are warmer than you thought!

I think your overall point is somewhat true. Girls in Philly/NY are definitely more standoffish than girls in other areas over the country. For example, I recently visited Nashville and girls there are much more approachable than girls back here.

Lol, this is just soooo off. First, you're not taking population density into account, and its not like chicago is some ****hole town in arkansas. Its the third largest city in the country that attracts people from all over the country, especially the midwest. A chicago 9 is a manhattan 9 is a mumbai 9.

Also, I firmly believe that there is an east coast standoffishness, which almost everyone on the east coast that I have associated with has copped to. I grew up in Chicago and lived in SF, and the east coast is definitely a different vibe. I was able to adjust and its been fine, but I did have to change things up a bit. Yes, JWhitt is making excuses out of his azz, as the potential in NYC is off the charts, but NYCs environment is generally unforgiving when it comes to mistakes with women.

Also, can everyone agree to stop responding to JWhitt? I realize that he keeps the thread active with his neurotic thought, but it really is ruining the thread and it's never anything new.

JWhitt, while a bitter person, is right and wrong at the same time.

Correct:

- Women are bitchier on the east coast. I've lived in Colorado, Chicago, and DC, and DC/NYC/other east coast cities are tremendously tougher. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't find fun people if you try.

- Some men have it a LOT easier. While people on here are quick to say that looks don't matter that much and it's all about being interesting and having fun, when it comes to first impressions good looking guys (especially tall ones) have a HUGE edge. My female roommate won't even look at a guy in a bar unless he's over 6' tall.

With looks, it's something like this:
Good looking - huge edge, warmer welcomes, almost anything slightly humorous they say comes off as hillarious
Normal looking - no edge, has to be more interesting and better at telling stories
Ugly / short / etc - serious negative hurdle to overcome for first impressions. Women will put up a much quicker "ugh leave me alone" type shield. They obviously can still overcome this, but the up front hurdle is much, much tougher.

Overall, JWhitt is underestimating how bad most guys are at meeting women though, and how far a reasonable amount of effort will get him.

He's directly stated that he's a boring guy. Well, guess what, you'll never be that super hot guy that gets all the women easily, but if you focus on becoming passionate about something, tell good stories, and have fun, you'll be just fine. Just don't compare yourself to other guys.

I've never once said I was boring and I'm not boring. If I was incredibly boring I wouldn't be getting dates (I'm not good looking enough to just get the benefit of the doubt to date me for a while if I was boring), hooking up at all, or have any social life.

I can improve on my interactions with women but they don't find me boring.

Doesn't the height thing, in most peoples estimation, matter more with the height of the girl?

I mean does a 6 foot 3 guy have a big advantage over a 5 foot 10 guy if the girl they are talking to is like 5 foot 2?

z28, I'm assuming your female roommate is relatively tall for girls (like 5'7-5'9).

Nope, roommate is 5'3. I don't want to derail this thread on height though, because a billion people will weigh in on it.

Here's my quick take: Like looks, women prefer height, and will often say they will only date tall men. Important life lesson: Women never say what they really mean. My roommate, for example, despite claiming she wants a 6'+ guy, actually ended up dating normal to slightly short guys. (Last three were probably 5'8, 5'8, and 5'7). I've also polled lots of shorter women (5'4 and below), and they all say the same thing.

I think one of the main factors that people overlook is that women quickly become interested in guys that are interested in them. Once they get in that state of mind, they just become obsessed with the thought of having someone.

"I think one of the main factors that people overlook is that women quickly become interested in guys that are interested in them. Once they get in that state of mind, they just become obsessed with the thought of having someone."

This thread would largely dispute that statement.

I guess I should clarify:

What works: Show some interest, then back off and be relaxed / normal / interesting.

What doesn't work: Show way too much interest and be clingy.

You HAVE to show some interest up front though.

JW,

"It's the same thing every weekend. There's no variety to the nightlife here."

There is more variety in NYC than perhaps anywhere in the world.

Once again I live here, you don't. I'll take my word for it 365 days a year over a guy that lives on the West Coast.

What is so unique about New York City bars? Expand. They are all overpriced, small in size, and either obnoxiously crowded or dead. There is never a happy medium.

A place like Chicago or the Jersey Shore, in comparison is much cheaper, has more space, the people (bartenders, people in bars, other staff) are friendlier, and due to size they aren't as crowded so you don't feel cramped asking for your $7 Bud Light.

You're such a mental midget. Open your ****ing eyes.

I sent you a very good bar recommendation in response to a PM of yours a while back (Raines Law Room for those scoring at home, also rec'ed Rye House for a pre-drink on the same block). Now, admittedly this doesn't seem like your taste given the person you've revealed yourself to be, but it certainly is the happy medium between crowded and dead (they make sure of it), and it's certainly relatively unique. Did you go? Or are you just complaining about the terrible bars that cater to people who only buy $7 Bud Lights?

huge +1 skunkworks is doing quality work itt

the last ~300 posts have been pretty incredible. JWitt you are a scary dude