EDF Wine thread

[ClarkNasty]

Am I the only one who trusts Cellar Tracker avg scores (given at least a sample of 10 notes) more than Parker/Spectator/Tanzer on their own? Cellar Tracker has an avg score of 93, I safely assume the wine is really, really effing good. Spectator/Parker I have no such feeling of confidence.

[Cancuk]

Clark,

Dependent on who the reviewer is, I agree. For instance, WS's James Laube's California rankings I find completely backwards and I don't trust him at all (there is actually a theory going around Napa producers that when he got hit the face with a baseball in around 2000, he lost his sense of smell and now only wants big, huge fruit bombs) but, someone like Allen Meadows (Burghound) I trust, as my palate has been pretty similar to his.

I say this as drinking Robert Craig's 2004 Howell Mountain (84 points WS). It's absolutely delicious. Red fruit, berry, spice, cassis on the nose. Smooth, still very young. Needs time, but still delicious now.

[KDawg]

clark, as always, it all depends. I certainly trust WA on the whole more then I do spectator, but I don't trust Jay Miller for the life of me. Since RP has delegated duties its really improved. Dave Schildkenecht(sp) and Antonio Galloni are both tremendous reviewers and I followed them before they latched onto WA. RP himself is generally pretty spot on with both bordeaux and the rhone. He can be a bit hit or miss IRT california, but he's a hell of a lot better then Laube

IWC is a great publication in general as Josh Raynolds and Tanzer are excellent reviewers, but Ian D'Agata is so-so with italy.

I do rely on cellar tracker a lot, but a grain of salt has to be taken sometimes. Scores can be skewed with one big or bad score, so it comes down to being familiar with certain tasters and knowing how they match up with you or if they don't

[Cancuk]

I pretty much agree with everything you said KDawg especially Galloni and Schildkenecht, who are both awesome.

[HoosierAlum]

Kdawg,

Awesome advice itt. I'm a wine noob but absolutely love it. I'm taking your advice and starting out with a specific region and varietal. I decided to start out with Napa Cabs, and I've found myself really liking this:

[Cancuk]

Clos du Val is a classic. A good place to start.

[KDawg]

Originally Posted by Cancuk

Clos du Val is a classic. A good place to start.

fully agreed, one could do much much worse

Hoosier, since you're liking the clos du val be sure to check out bugess as its in the same price range.

If you want to kick it up a notch, look for Lewelling(the regular bottling is just as good as the wight IMO and 20-30 less), Chappellet Signature, and Mt Eden. All three are really good cabs that are very expressive and do a really good job showing off what I love about california cabernet, which is expressive fruit with good balance and no over oaking

[SlowHabit]

KDawg,

Please write more. Thanks.

[Cancuk]

I would also like to throw out as one step up from Clos du Val: Robert Craig's Affinity. It's year in and year out simply outstanding and, IMO, the best value in Napa at $30ish online.

[Cancuk]

I've been on a Portuguese tear lately:

Right now:

Quinta dos Roques Encruzado - A white of the verital, Encruzado. Easily the best white I've tasted out of Portugal. Very Burgundian in style. Spent some time on French Oak.. which is nicely integrated and not overpowering. Great acidity pushes through with a medium to full body of Lemon meringue and butterscotch.

Really, really impressive. Has anybody else had this? Jancis Robinson has said that Encruzado's are very long lived, especially those from this specific producer so I'm thinking of putting a case into the cellar.

[KDawg]

had a great night last saturday. Got to do a vertical of all the major vintages of Chateau Beaucastel(and then a few others) from 81-01:

BEAUCASTEL VERTICAL 81-01 - Gurnee IL, Jordan's house (3/21/2009)

this had been in the works for months. Stops and starts and trying to have it work for as many people possible prevented it from happening until now. While we wanted some Hommages, this was a great representation of beaucastel over a 20 period of many of the major vintages. It also provided a great way to get to know Beaucastel. Apart from the Beaucastel, there was also a whole lot of Flannery Beef for us to chow down on
kick off burg

• 1996 Dominique Laurent Gevrey-Chambertin 1er Cru Lavaux St. Jacques - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Gevrey-Chambertin 1er Cru
  nose: beautiful and aromatic spiced based nose filled with brown and asian spices, black cherries, bits of truffles, red cherries and slight hints of earth. Well rounded nose that is wide open right now and very gevrey in character
  
  taste: lovely feel with the 96 acidity rearing its head as it is a bit much. Well balanced tones of brown and asian spices, black cherries, hints of earth and some bits of truffles
  
  overall: needs a bit more time to let the acidity calm down. The aromatics were great though as there was all sorts of classic gevrey tones that were well balanced and alluring (93 pts.)

The vertical

• 1981 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: very animale and sauvage nose with some animal hides, leather, tobacco, a lot of bleu cheese, herbs, spices, black cherries and bits of peppercorns. With more air, char broiled meaty tones emerge and the wine becomes very expressive with excellent layering
  
  taste: very deep and well layered tones of leather, dark herbs, tobacco, pepper, and black cherry tones with some animal undertones. Great medium feel that is mostly resolved, but there is still some tannins to keep it going
  
  overall: a really interesting wine. Very different from all the other beaucastels that were drank as it had a real sauvage streak. This presented some real different facets over the evening drinking it as it kept the animalistic core, but presented a bunch of different tones to go with it (94 pts.)
• 1983 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: very perfumed and lovely nose of red fruits, spices, bits of game, barnyard, red licorice, garrigue and hints of white pepper. Even slight hints of hi-toned florals. A lovely nose that is very captivating and a bit different then what one would expect from a CdP as there is a burgundian sense to it
  
  taste: the elegance follows through on teh palate with a lovely medium feel and some nice tannins are still present. Beautifully balanced tones of red fruits, spices, red licorice, and some gamey tones lurk underneath with a touch of white pepper
  
  overall: a lovely wine. Smooth and sleek with a very sauve character to it that makes it very alluring. Drinking great, and one would be very hard pressed to guess that this was a wine this old as the color was great and one could see through the wine, but there was no real browning at the rim (92 pts.)
• 1985 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: very tight off the bat and took a bit to get going with tones of black and red licorice, herbs, dark red fruits, red cherries, some liqueur tones and some good tones of leather balance it all out with really good depth and class on the nose
  
  taste: good tannins and acidity still make their presence felt with good tones of red and black licorice, dark red fruits, leather, and liqueur tones. lovely medium feel that has a bit more weight then the 83 that was right next to it
  
  overall: This took a bit to open up. Initially very tight, it had a very youthful feel to it that belied its age. Was hoping for more though as it seemed stuck in 3rd gear and didn't start to really take it to a higher level that I was hoping for (92 pts.)
• 1989 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: a bit of a wild nose with a very rich notes of red and black fruits, loads of roasted herbs, wild animal hides, rawhide leather, and black pepper. Good balance, and rich, but lacking a bit of depth to go with the wild streak
  
  taste: excellent and polished feel as it comes across well resolved with tones of red and black fruits, roasted herbs, rawhide leather, black pepper, dark cherries, and some rich liqueur tones. Very plump and the wild streak that was on the nose was tamed a bit, which is a slight dissapointment
  
  overall: while really good, this bottle didn't bring the depth that would've really taken it to another level. Really good richness on the nose and palate with an excellent medium feel, but the wild streak being tamed on the palate took a bit away as it would've continued the adventure that was the nose a bit (93 pts.)
• 1989 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  this was a second bottle that was brought out to see the bottle variation from the vintage
  
  nose: ridiculously deep nose of red currants, red cherries, spice tones, leather and a whole lot of liqueur tones. Very expressive and very pungent that really draws you in. More pure then the other bottle of the 89 and didn't have the wild streak, but had a whole lot more depth and this was a real class nose
  
  taste: very lush and elegant feel that is really resolved. Wonderful rich tones of red currants, red cherries, red fruits, spice tones, leather, bits of bakers chocolate, and some hints of barnyard tones work their way out. Wonderful feel with good depth, but doesn't captivate like the nose does
  
  overall: the two bottles were very different from each other. Two different wines, and both enjoyable, but this bottle took it to another level. The nose was near magical and had so much depth that it was very heady. There was a refinement to the wine and both bottles were really good, this one was better (95 pts.)
• 1990 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: rich, sleek, elegant and very deep with wonderful layered tones of red fruits, red cherries, loads of herbs, spice tones, rawhide leather, and garrigue with a touch of funk. An intoxicating nose that beguiles the senses and is just so beautiful
  
  taste: extremely layered and pure with rich tones of red fruits, red cherries, spice tones, garrigue and a bit of barnyard funk. Beautiful feel that seems to go on forever on the palate and really brings on the class
  
  overall: a beautiful beaucastel. One of the classiest beaus that I've had and it just really turns it on. A hair better then bottle no2 of the 89 as this just has that extra edge of class that does it for me and makes me ponder (95 pts.)
• 1994 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: very elegant nose filled with white pepper, red fruits, leather and red currants. Not too much funk, but a real lovely nose that has a hollywood blonde type edge to it that really makes me want to smell more of it
  
  taste: drinking wonderfully with mature tones of mushrooms, white pepper, red cherries, red currants and bits of leather. Good medium feel that glides across the palate
  
  overall: a really elegant bottle of beaucastel. This one showed that there is definitely some variation on this vintage from bottles as all three have been a bit different, but this was really good and very enjoyable (91 pts.)
• 1995 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: really good and tart nose of red cherries, red currants, red fruits, raspberry compote, with a touch of licorice tones and some black fruits. Really good depth and there is more of a cleanliness to this that the previous beaucastels didn't have
  
  taste: good tannins with a nice medium feel of red and dark cherries, bits of leather, spice tones and a good helping of garrigue and licorice. A nice richness to it with tart tones that work very well together
  
  overall: great balance and feel, this is starting to enter a really good place. In a somewhat in between stage it'll be interesting to follow this as it gets older to see if it becomes a bit more "dirty" as it has a good purity and clean feel to it right now (92 pts.)
• 1996 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: good nose of leather, black pepper, garrigue, black and sour cherries with a bit of meaty tones. Nice nose, but in a lower level then all of the other beaucastels that were opened as it lacked some of the extra complexity or layering and depth that had set the other beacastels apart
  
  taste: good medium feel with tones of leather, garrigue, black and sour cherries and slight hints of meat. Well resolved and feels that this is as good as its going to get. Lacking depth, but is very nice
  
  overall: a really good and solid beaucastel. Just has a bit lacking that was present in other beaus. Good tones and flavors, there just isn't the depth that was present in the other vintages of beaucastel (88 pts.)
• 1998 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: great depth with beautiful flavors of spices, herbs, liqueur, leather, dark red cherries, currants and rich red fruits. Very pungent, but seems to be holding back a bit and isn't as expressive as the other big vintages of beaucastel that were there
  
  taste: fuller bodied then the other beaucastels with very good tannins. Rich, but holding back a bit with well balanced tones of raspberries, leather, spices, dark red cherries, currants, and liqueur tones with some red fruits
  
  overall: this bottle didn't seem ready for primetime. There was a tightness to it even though it had been decanted for 3 hours and had a lot of bottle air before fully getting to it. Rich and deep, this should turn into a real beauty but will need another 5 years to really start to getting where it should end up at (93 pts.)
• 1999 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: good dark nose of black fruits, black cherries, garrigue, spices and bits of leather with a hint of game. Excellent balance and shows some good character with the dark and somewhat mysterious profile that other beaus haven't had
  
  taste: really good texture with a nice medium feel of black fruits, leather, black spices and black cherries. Good tannins, but more resolved then the 98
  
  overall: a much earlier drinking beaucastel then the 98 and even the 95. Good dark profile that is a bit of a departure from the other beaucastels provides some intrigue for the wine and has nice tannins right now (91 pts.)
• 2000 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: as dark as the profile was on the 99, this is much more dark. Very expressive with black fruits, black cherries, black currants, leather and black spices. Very alluring and classy with a good amount of depth
  
  taste: excellent balance with good tannins and a tasty medium feel. Rich tones of black currants, black fruits, dark red fruits, black cherries, black currants and leather tones
  
  overall: in a really good and interesting place that is starting to drink. This should be on an interesting evolutionary track for a while and at this time seems more evolved then the 98. A fun one to drink as the dark profile is very intriguing and much different then the other beaucastels(other then the 99) (93 pts.)
• 2001 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: this nose is screaming right off the bat with all sorts of black fruits, red fruits, bright red cherries, raspberries, kirsch liqueur, raspberries and hints of pepper. Almost new worldish as there is definitely a brighter tones to the fruit on the nose
  
  taste: lovely feel with good tannins. Very rich tones of sweet perfumes, kirsch liqueur, raspberries, red cherries, red fruits, and some hints of pepper. Great depth on the palate with wonderful length
  
  overall: this will need more time. Very youthful, but a tremendous wine already that can get better. Needs to evolve a bit more and let some of the tannins subside a slight bit, but those that have this in their cellars should be very happy (94 pts.)
• 1997 Château de Beaucastel Châteauneuf-du-Pape Blanc Cuvée Roussanne Vieilles Vignes - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: rich and honeyed nose with all sorts of nutty tones, honeysuckle, sour lemons, star fruits, all sorts of various oils and citrus hints. Very deep and intriguing nose that is fully mature
  
  taste: great feel with smokey tones, roasted nuts, drops of honey, citrus tones, various oils, and sour lemons
  
  overall: the color was very rich and golden which caused some worry when popped. Upon first smell it wasn't a problem at all. As it opened up and warmed up a bit the mid palate formed a lot more and became more rich. Can definitely last longer, but there's little reason to not to drink it now (92 pts.)

Night cappers

• 1983 Domaine du Vieux Télégraphe Châteauneuf-du-Pape La Crau - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
  nose: this is a holy **** type nose. Insanely deep with all sorts of garrigue, black fruits, earthen tones, spices, black cherries and just jam packed with tellicherry peppercorns. This is the kind of nose that makes your eyes roll into the back of your head and the layering is just off the charts
  
  taste: this is pure sex in the mouth. wow, just wow ridiculously layered feel with all sorts of black cherries, dark red fruits, loads of peppercorns and herbs with a touch of roasted beef tones that form the base
  
  overall: mind blowing. The layering on the wine is off the charts and this is a Telegraphe that takes you to a completely different level. This nearly left me speechless and I just sat there with the glass for a while to soak in the moment (96 pts.)
• 1976 Paul Jaboulet Aîné Côte-Rôtie Les Jumelles - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie
  nose: this was pure sex on the nose. Violets, smoke, black cherries, tobacco, bacon fat and a bit of leather all just work together in pure harmony in a large scale balancing act that takes you to a completely different level that so few wines are capable of
  
  taste: silky smooth medium/full feel that completely beguiles and is so beautiful. Melded tones of smoke, black cherries, tobacco, bacon fat and some bits of florals just glide across the palate like satin
  
  overall: this wine does it again. Pure delight that is very pleasing to the senses. Harmoniously balanced that is just everything you want from a cote rotie and barely shows off its age. A masterpiece in winemaking (95 pts.)
• 1993 Anderson's Conn Valley Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Estate Reserve - USA, California, Napa Valley
  nose: great classic cab nose filled with cedar, red currants, dark red cherries, bits of walnuts, cassis and tart cranberry notes. Very rich, but balanced nose that is in a perfect place at this time
  
  taste: wonderful rich and full bodied feel with tannins that are still kicking. Great tones of cedar, dark red cherries, cranberries, and cassis work well with each other
  
  overall: this was at the end of a long and great night, so my notes aren't completely all there. That said, this was a great showing of an aged anderson conn before it started getting the points and accolades (92 pts.)

A great and long night. With people dropping like flies at the end, there was a whole lot of wine for just seven people. The wines showed fairly well, but the beef took center stage and this was my first experience with flannery, and it was a great experience. It fully lived up to expectations and with the wines it was tremendous
Posted from CellarTracker

[Cancuk]

Sounds like an awesome night Kdawg.

Beaucastel is an amazing producer. I just got two bottles of the '79 for super cheap. I think they're going to be a little past their prime, but will be opening soon.

[KDawg]

how was the provenance of the 79s that you got? Looking on CT it may be really good. Granted there's only 3 notes, but Eric didn't want to part with one of his(well, for a big price) when we asked after getting the 83 from him, so that's pretty telling

[Cancuk]

Provenance is good. Bought upon release, hasn't moved much since. We will see soon. I haven't tasted much older CDP, so I won't have much to compare it to.

Exciting though.

[KDawg]

before saturday, I hadn't tasted any CdP older then 98 that wasn't beaucastel. The 83 Telegraphe was great and it does make it interesting to see Grenache be able to go that long