Yeah that's basically what I figured. But I wasn't sure if it might be a little more important with super wine-heavy dishes like coq au vin. You think not?

Again I think the difference between decent wine and top shelf stuff will be zero, but I am using a wine nerd definition of "decent wine" here. You reckon bad wine will still be OK in a dish that wine-heavy? To give an idea, I am talking about the sort of wine where you show up to a function with a drinks package and expect a bad red, yet wen you taste it you still frown into your glass.

So not totally undrinkable, but bad.

I use the cheapest red I can find for my spag bolognaise btw, and it doesn't seem to matter what I put in there. Other factors that people frequently ignore (like browning the meat before cooking up the sauce) seem way more important.

I usually use la vielle ferme for a cooking red. I can get it for $6 or $7 at my store and it does everything I need on the whole (outside of doing specific dishes).

Really, it all depends on what I want to impart on the food if I'm marinating it. I've used langhe nebbiolos on lamb and beef before when marinating and when I want to impart that on the meat. I'll generally use a cheap bourgogne for coq au vin or beouf bourguignon as it would be a crime to use a village burg for that.

Something that needs to be remembered is that even low level wines these days are a million miles better than what Julia Child was using. Even our "worse" wines now are much better than what royals were drinking (on the whole) during the 19th century, much less the 1600s

Over the past two months I've had a chance to taste an absolute ****load of 2010 and 2011 Oregon Pinot Noirs. If you are a fan of pinot noir that is more elegant and perfumed, these vintages are absolute stunners. They will need some time and it's possible in the end that 11 ends up being the "better" vintage as there is a lot of nuance to the wines right now.

Regardless, these are wines that I think people should be backing up the truck on and letting them age. The best part is, you can find a ton of insanely good pinots for under $50. With the way california pinots are going, these are becoming monster buys. Especially if your palate leans more towards burgundy (relatively of course).

Brag: Been nabbing some (IMO) great bargains at my neighborhood county liquor store, Wegman's, and online -- 2008 Château Pavie Macquin St. Émilion Grand Cru ($44.99), 2007 Joh. Jos. Prüm Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Auslese ($35), 2010 Domaine Galévan Châteauneuf-du-Pape ($29.95).

Beat: Really can't/shouldn't open any of these for at least 5-10 years, if not longer.

KDawg, are there any in particular you recommend? I'm a fan of Willamette Valley Vineyards. I'm trying to expand my Pinot palate though, an would love to try a few new gems.

Joe

Joe, what's your general price range and what OR pinots have you enjoyed in the past?

Price range is $10-$50. Besides the Willamette, quite a few, but nothing ultra memorable comes to mind. I did enjoy the Cambria Julia's Vineyard (2008 I think). I was the #1 wine on Wine Enhusiasts Top 100 for 2010. Having lurked this thread for a while, I know you certainly know your stuff, and was looking for a little tasting homework from you.

Joe

That price range allows you to do great with OR Pinot. Don't expect the 10s and 11s to be big or "blow you away" type pinots. They are more medium and medium/light bodied with higher acidities.

I would say that you should definitely try:

Evesham Wood
Belle Pente
Brick House
Seven of Hearts
Johan (I'm friends with the winemaker)
Domaine Drouhin
Matello
Westrey
Eyrie

Those should get you started. Granted, what all is available depends on where you live or if you are willing to order from Portland retailers. Sec wines in SE Portland carries a lot of those producers as does Liner & Elston

Cool. Thanks for the list. I'll head to the liquor store and see what I can order.

Joe

Where in CT are you? if you are near New Haven, the wine thief carries some good oregon pinot. They always have a bunch of Belle Pente kicking around, which is prob my favorite oregon producer. Also, they are an awesome retailer.

Eastern CT, but luckily, I work on the road, and New Haven is part of my territory. If I have time, I may swing by and pick up a bottle of Belle Pente to try.

Joe

So I went to the Wine Theif for the Belle Pente, and of course they were out of it. So I went with their recommendation, and here's my review:



J Christopher Pinot Noir Unfiltered 2010 ($35)

This was tasted prior to dinner tonight, and opened 45 minutes prior to tasting.

Color: a light garnet color, very inviting, but lighter than expected.

Nose: a pleasant, inviting nose with hints of pepper and some black cherry. Very nice.

Taste: plenty of flavor here. Initially, was a little tight, with some overwhelming pepper and tannins. But after sitting in the glass about 5 minutes, it really mellowed out, and softened the pepper up a great deal. It was great after it mellowed out. Other flavors noted include oak, spice, and earthy tones. It was a rather lengthy and enjoyable finish. Good amount of acidity and tannins in the structure of this wine. Medium body, not nearly as fruity as a cab or malbec.

I really enjoyed this wine. I'm looking forward to the Belle Pente that I went in to get. I may order it locally from my wine guy, or stop in next week to see if he has it back in stock. I pulled out my whole list, and he had none of them. This was a nice wine to try, and I would certainly have it again in the future. Not, off to log it in to my cellar tracker!

Joe

Joe, not sure if you're only interested in Oregon pinot, but if you're into/interested in red burgundy at all you should pop into Mt carmel wine in Hamden. They have a pretty absurd collection of stuff going back to the 80s, which has all been cellared beneath the store since release, and prices are generally pretty good. Glad you check out the thief....they are great. I'm surprised they didnt have any belle pente, I've almost always seen it in there. Did you go to the one on crown st or on whitney ave? They are 5 mins from eachother and have different selections.

I went to Crown St. The guy that helped me seemed surprised too. But he also said he should have some in when the wine maker is there for a tasting on May 10th. I'm usually not all the way out in Hamden, New Haven is usually the furthest west I go for work. But if I have a chance, I'll stop out there. I'm pretty much interested in all wines, so trying the French wines are certainly in play.

Joe

With stewing/braising type dishes it really doesn't make much difference and KD's recco of a decent cotes du rhone is solid, I would note that it's easy to forget how much sugar can be contained in an ostensibly dry wine, particularly ripe aussies! Mass label stuff like yellowtail and cheap supermarket whites (and some fancy stuff from hot areas) can have a ****load of residual sugar and this can really affect a dish. That's a lot of extra salt you have to add to balance it out. Also never use corked wine, it will come out, and never use anything fully mature, it will turn vinegary. Oddly I got into cooking as a way of exploring how wine works in food and I came to realise that the earlier you're adding the wine in the process the more basic you can go. The dreggy sedimented stuff left over from last night is always good for deglazing pans but if you're finishing a sauce put in a slosh of the top stuff you have for drinking with the meal, it will come out. Top tip, get a really good oloroso sherry ($20 a bottle is high end) and add a few drops when you're saucing, it will improve any dish that involves meat or fish and will last a year.

Yeah I would never use something with RS when a dry wine was called for. Results could be disastrous. I would never buy Yellowtail and its ilk for any reason.

Oloroso is an interesting tip, I could see that working.

Last time I cooked I used 2011 Arrogant Frog Croak Rotie and ended up drinking it for pleasure. Actually a really well made wine.

yes and "noilly prat" for sauces with fish (white wine/champagne/prosecco sauces etc) - but this needs to be boiled down.

Conde de Valdemar, Reserva 2004, Oyón, Spain. 90% Tempranillo and 10% Mauzelo.

Just pulled this out from under my bed and had some with dinner. Have no idea when I purchased it but it was within the last three years. It is aged for 18 months in wood casts imported from Jupiter and then decanted into bottles and allowed to rot for an additional 2 full years before being released to the throbbing masses. This wine is so good, God is planning to give a bottle to each joker that passes through the pearly gates. Soft on the tongue with enough pleasant aftertaste to make the drinker aware that he is not imbibing Coors Light. Does not taste like shoe leather. Complexity is awesome but not overbearing. I suggest drinking this wine with boiled dog stew. Enjoy. Life is short so drink to excess at all times.

It's been way too long since I've posted TNs in here. So, here is a tasting I was at a few weeks ago with one of my groups (evilganz, this is izzy's brainchild here in Chicago. Needless to say, I'm glad he's here now and not with you guys in NYC, ):

ROTATING DINNER SERIES- A FOCUS ON CABERNET FRANC - Domaine Wine Storage, Chicago IL (6/24/2013)

This was James' turn to host. The theme he chose was exploring Cabernet Franc. When the wines were listed, it wasn't hard to tell that this was going to be a real good tasting. I didn't take pictures of the food, but it was a great compliment to the wines.
Opening Whites

• 2005 Didier Dagueneau Pouilly-Fumé Silex - France, Loire Valley, Upper Loire, Pouilly-Fumé
  Nose: Very aromatic with deep tones of wet stones, crushed rocks, white fruits, lemon zest, and floral tones. There is good layering to this with an airy quality on the nose as well.
  
  Taste: Light bodied with crisp medium/high acidity. There is very good depth with layered tones of wet stones, crushed rocks, lemon zest, and floral tones.
  
  Overall: This is a beautiful dagueneau. There is really good depth and layering with this showing a lot of class as well. (93 pts.)
  
• 2005 Didier Dagueneau Pouilly-Fumé Pur Sang - France, Loire Valley, Upper Loire, Pouilly-Fumé
  Nose: Very aromatic and beautifully balanced nose with tones of pears, white fruits, leesy tones, minerals, and loads of white peaches. There is a lot of depth and layering with a perfumed quality as well.
  
  Taste: Light bodied with medium/high acidity that is very crisp, but not too over powering. The feel is really lovely with layered and regal tones of white peaches, minerals, white fruits, and some leesy tones.
  
  Overall: This was gorgeous. It had a real refined nature to it with good layering and loads of depth. (94 pts.)
  

La Jota Cab Francs

• 1986 La Jota Cabernet Franc - USA, California, Napa Valley, Howell Mountain
  Nose: This is very seamless on the nose with refined and balanced tones of herbs, dark red fruits, violets, leather, funk, and red cherries. There is very good complexity, but it is lacking some depth that would really drive the nose.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity and dusty tannins. Very well balanced with seamless tones of herbs, red cherries, spices, violets, and some funk tones.
  
  Overall: This was a very refined mature cab franc. It was pretty with good complexity on both the nose and palate. (91 pts.)
  
• 1991 La Jota Cabernet Franc - USA, California, Napa Valley, Howell Mountain
  Nose: Very open and aromatic nose with satiny tones of roses, violets, herbs, spices, dark red cherries, and red berries. There is very good depth with a regalness to the tones as well.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity and good supporting tannins. The feel is very sexy and silky with polished tones of roses, violets, spices, dark red cherries, and red berries.
  
  Overall: This was gorgeous. It was very well layered and beautiful across the nose and palate. This had a hi-toned quality to it that was very attractive as well. (93 pts.)
  
• 1997 La Jota Cabernet Franc - USA, California, Napa Valley, Howell Mountain
  Nose: There is a plushness to the nose with tones of cherries, root vegetables, red florals, herbs, and some red fruits. There is good balance to the nose as well with solid depth.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity with chewy tannins. There is a plushness to the tones of herbs, cherris, root vegetables, red berries, and red fruits.
  
  Overall: There was a riper quality to this, but it was more relative as it was still distinctly cabernet franc. (91 pts.)
  

Pride Cab Francs

• 1998 Pride Mountain Vineyards Cabernet Franc - USA, California, Sonoma County
  Nose: Well balanced with rounded tones of Bell Pepper, red fruits, red cherries, red florals, and spice tones. There is a maturity to the nose, but with still nice fruit as well.
  
  Taste: Medium/full bodied with medium+ acidity and silky tannins. Well balanced with plump and rounded tones of bell peppers, red fruits, cherries, and spice tones.
  
  Overall: This is a quality Cab Franc. This feels like it's in it's prime right now, but it certainly can go a ways further. (90 pts.)
  
• 2001 Pride Mountain Vineyards Cabernet Franc - USA, California, Sonoma County
  Nose: The nose is showing more herbal with a good dose of bell peppers, asparagus, herbs, and dark red cherries. This is lacking some depth as well, but it's also showing fairly tight.
  
  Taste: Medium/full bodied with medium+ acidity and chewy tannins. The structure was youthful with well balanced tones of bell peppers, asparagus, and dark red cherries.
  
  Overall: This didn't seem like it wanted to fully come out and play. There is a very vegetal streak that is nice, but it seems more on the under-ripe side. (88 pts.)
  
• 2002 Pride Mountain Vineyards Cabernet Franc - USA, California, Sonoma County
  Nose: Very perfumed with well balanced tones of root vegetables, herbs, dark red cherries, red florals, and red fruits. There is very good depth to the nose with a youthful side to it as well.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity and chewy tannins. The structure is very youthful with well balanced and deeper tones of root vegetables, bell peppers, herbs, dark red cherries, and some plush red fruits.
  
  Overall: There is a lot of youth to this, but it is showing beautifully right now. There is really good depth and balance to this with really good red fruits as well. (92 pts.)
  

Breton Beaumonts

• 1976 Catherine et Pierre Breton Chinon Beaumont - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon
  Nose: Very well balanced and layered nose with mature tones of herbs, clay, root vegetables, dark red cherries, bell peppers, florals, and some spice tones.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity and nice supporting tannins. This is very regal and refined on the palate with layered tones of herbs, clay, root vegetables, cherries, and some bell peppers.
  
  Overall: This was gorgeous. There was a silkiness to it with real nice layering and balance. (92 pts.)
  
• 1992 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Les Perrières - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
  Nose: This has a real nice rusticness to it on the nose with tones of leather, herbs, dark red cherries, earth, and root vegetables. There is nice depth and some good layering too.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity and good tannins. The mid-palate is lacking slightly along with balanced tones of leather, earth, dark red cherries, and bell peppers.
  
  Overall: This is a quality Chinon. It is showing a bit less than the other Bretons, but it's still very enjoyable and seems like it would be better on it's own. (90 pts.)
  
• 1993 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Les Perrières - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
  Nose: Very aromatic and perfumed with layered tones of fruitcake, dark red cherries, spices, dark red fruits, herbs, and some celery root. There is really good depth to this with a lot of balance as well.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity and silky tannins. The feel is nuanced and silky with layered tones of fruitcake, herbs, bell pepper, and dark red cherries.
  
  Overall: This was gorgeous. It was very well balanced and refined with great depth and layering. This was drinking beautifully and can go a good ways longer as well. (93 pts.)
  

Olga Raffault Les Picasses'

• 1989 Olga Raffault Chinon Les Picasses - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon
  Nose: Very perfumed and feminine nose filled with deep and layered tones of red fruits, cherries, herbs, clay, roses, and some celery seed. This is a beautiful and captivating nose with very good balance.
  
  Taste: Medium bodied with medium+ acidity and chewy tannins. The structure is noticeable, but it isn't overpowering with layered tones of celery seed, clay, red fruits, cherries, and herbs.
  
  Overall: This was a beautiful wine. There is really good depth and layering with a refined and feminine style to it. (93 pts.)
  
• 1979 Olga Raffault Chinon Les Picasses - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon
  Nose: The nose is a bit more on the faint side, with drying tones of herbs, cherries, dark red fruits, leather, and spice tones.
  
  Taste: Medium/light bodied with medium acidity. The feel is very nice, but it's lacking some depth along with tones of herbs, cherries, spices, and leather tones.
  
  Overall: This is a very good wine, but it's on the downside. The tones are nice, but are lacking depth and are a bit drying. (86 pts.)
  

Night capper

• 1989 Domaine Huet Vouvray Cuvée Constance - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray
  Nose: Deep and layered nose with succulent tones of caramel, toffee, red apples, white fruits, acacia flowers, and some marmalade. The nose just sung where you got stopped in the moment.
  
  Taste: Full bodied with medium+ acidity. The feel is silky with deep and honeyed tones of caramel, pears, peaches, toffee, red apples, and some marmalade.
  
  Overall: This was a stunning wine. It just drew you in with it's depth and refinement. This was a wine that commanded your attention at every point. (96 pts.)
  

This was a real blast. The wines showed really well and who could argue with the lineup? Yet another fun dinner series and I look forward to the next one in July.
Posted from CellarTracker

We're visiting the Bay Area next month for a family wedding and taking a day trip to Napa and Sonoma, luckboxed an Ad Hoc dinner reservation. Definitely hitting up Merry Edwards for a private tasting, love the sauvignon blanc but don't know anything about their pinots.

What have you heard about or tasted from Stryker, Hanna, or Paradise Ridge? Supposedly their wines are nowhere near the best but the grounds offer great picnic areas and views in Sonoma, which matters to my wife.

Considered briefly visiting Pride Mountain but I don't know anything about cab francs and feel generally intimidated about a winery of its name and caliber.

You really should go to Pride. They make tremendous wine and are much better than the ones you listed (outside of merry edwards). I don't know anything about stryker or paradise ridge, but that kinda says something right there. I've never seen them in distribution and I've yet to come across any friends that are way into Cali wines ever talk about them. Same goes with Paradise Ridge.

Just as I feared. Pride is on a freaking mountain, I have a hard time believing that the other places offer so better a view to justify the downgrade in wine quality. Life is too short, I booked a tasting/tour with Pride, thanks for setting me straight. Seems like the amount of wine alone would justify the $15 cost.

Going to Piemonte on September 21st to 28th. If anyone has any recommendations they would be greatly appreciated.

what barolos and barbarescos have you enjoyed in the past? Be sure you have someone with you that speaks italian as very little english is spoken in piemonte