EDF MMA/Fightin' February '12 Konichiwa Thread - Page 7 - EDF Forum

caught_clean · 02-02-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead

Mir beat Cro Cop. Mir also has wins over Roy Nelson and Kongo who both beat Cro Cop. He's also got big wins over Sylvia and Lesnar. It's not close imo.

Re read my post. Especially the part about "all time" and how hard he fell of in the last few years. He has double the amount of MMA fights as Mir. This would be like saying Rashad is a better LHW of all time then Chuck because he beat him. Mir has some lol loses on his record to so it swings both ways.

kingofcool · 02-02-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Chocula

The thing about doing a goat list for any sport is that you have to rate the athlete relative to the sport during their era. You can't ask who would win between Ali & Tyson and rank the winner as goat, because they were in two different eras. Mark Coleman in his prime wouldn't beat a low level ufc heavyweight today.

in this case you could as Ali would absolutely stomp Tyson!

But yeah you need to account for these things. Who know how a boxer in the 30s could do in the 2000s with all the steroids and **** available to him.

In mma it's a bit different as the evolution has happened in such a short time. Not sure what to think of it.

caught_clean · 02-02-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofcool

in this case you could as Ali would absolutely stomp Tyson!

But yeah you need to account for these things. Who know how a boxer in the 30s could do in the 2000s with all the steroids and **** available to him.

In mma it's a bit different as the evolution has happened in such a short time. Not sure what to think of it.

Good post. Also I think Prime Mark Coleman could probably hang with some top 20-15 HWs of today. 2 fights ago he did beat Bonnar, hes not complete garbage when hes on and actually not a blown out 40+ year old.

Count Chocula · 02-02-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpireMaker2

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UE&hl=sv#gid=0

This was a pretty cool draft from two years ago that I just looked back on. Who do you guys think wins at this moment? Pretty close between Daut, MP, and myself imo.

Traz has 2 current champs.

Majour will have 2 as well (Aldo and Diaz-Condit winner)

If Sonnen wins you have the draft on lockdown though.

kingofcool · 02-02-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpireMaker2

Good point agreed. I think that's what makes GOAT lists impossible to make, and I should probably stop trying to make them in the future.

Easiest to just go by accomplishments and resumè. In the end thats proven ability. A lot of people look very good but never amount to much.
Judge the victories of the fighter and account for when/where/how. Beating Fedor today would obviously not be worth what it was in 2005 etc.

MMA-history is possibly not deep enough to have meaningful discussions on it just yet.

EmpireMaker2 · 02-02-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caught_clean

Good post. Also I think Prime Mark Coleman could probably hang with some top 20-15 HWs of today. 2 fights ago he did beat Bonnar, hes not complete garbage when hes on and actually not a blown out 40+ year old.

Haha I forgot he beat Bonnar and I was at that fight. That's a legit win. He also hung with Shogun even if it was a terrible back from injury shogun, which is still somewhat impressive. Maybe I don't give Coleman enough credit for being a beast.

Count Chocula · 02-02-2012, 04:01 PM

Does everyone agree that Anderson is goat as of right now though? Anyone still support Fedor for that?

kingofcool · 02-02-2012, 04:03 PM

Anderson for sure. Not sure if GSP will get there with his injury. How many more years will he get etc?

Jon Jones already has a sick record though. If he keeps trucking a few more years he could easily have GOAT accomplishments.

caught_clean · 02-02-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpireMaker2

Haha I forgot he beat Bonnar and I was at that fight. That's a legit win. He also hung with Shogun even if it was a terrible back from injury shogun, which is still somewhat impressive. Maybe I don't give Coleman enough credit for being a beast.

Well like I said, in his time he was definitely a beast, when he got to the UFC he was 45 and just done.

caught_clean · 02-02-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Chocula

Does everyone agree that Anderson is goat as of right now though? Anyone still support Fedor for that?

I think Fedor is the HW GOAT without question, but I never really considered him to be the overall GOAT. Its like when they had him as #1 p4p for awhile, which is kind of retarded since he is a HW.

kingofcool · 02-02-2012, 04:05 PM

UFC's hw division is still **** outside of top10 as well.

Russow is 4-0, just saying.

MikeyPatriot · 02-02-2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpireMaker2

When I do all time lists I take in a consideration a mix of achievements and ability. I don't think it is fair to rank someone like Coleman or Severn above Reem.

Coleman was a UFC HW champ and won the OWGP. Yeah, he was one dimensional, but he fought in an era where he could get away with it (for the most part).

Did you really put JDS #2 all-time?

Machinehead · 02-02-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caught_clean

Re read my post. Especially the part about "all time" and how hard he fell of in the last few years. He has double the amount of MMA fights as Mir. This would be like saying Rashad is a better LHW of all time then Chuck because he beat him. Mir has some lol loses on his record to so it swings both ways.

For me it's Mir's ability to continue to stay relevant and evolve with the sport for 10+years that puts him way ahead of Cro Cop.

The amount of fights have no bearing. Cro Cop has at least 10+ wins that are gimme fights against low level competition. All the Pride HWs have a lot of padded wins on their records. UFC HWs don't have those on their records.

EmpireMaker2 · 02-02-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Chocula

Does everyone agree that Anderson is goat as of right now though? Anyone still support Fedor for that?

I think in five years Fedor has a pretty good chance of falling to number 4-5 on the GOAT list. I don't see anyone at heavyweight having a dominant run, and other than Sonnen beating Andy I don't think Anderson, GSP, Jones, or Aldo will lose for a long time. (although I wouldn't rank Aldo's competition high enough to merit moving past Fedor)

fnx99 · 02-02-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Chocula

Does everyone agree that Anderson is goat as of right now though? Anyone still support Fedor for that?

anderson #1 for sure
(hope he beats sonnen next)