You're being too harsh. Ultimatums like that are pretty destructive before trying other options, such as the plates-on-the-bed option.

There are a million ways you can make her see the error of her ways without threatening the relationship itself. What girl wants to be with a man who cares more about washing up than his relationship with her?

You haven't really thought this through, have you? You're advocating far more pressure and destabilization than I am, and in fact calling it "the healthiest thing in the world" while advocating a far more extreme version of the thing you laughed at. Bravo.

So should I just resign myself to always doing the dishes forever and ever? This has been building up for months. The plates on the bed option seems incredibly immature and abusive.

Also, I sleep in that ****ing bed so why would I want plates on my own bed?

11t,


I have no differentiated opinion to offer on this particular problem, but as a rule skunkworks' advice is going to be infinitely better than pingclown's.

Yeah I figured that out fairly quickly. I am not interested in dating some dog who I need to spray with a bottle when they **** on the carpet.

But threatening the very existence of your relationship over undone washing up somehow isn't abusive? WTF? It's about the most abusive thing you can do, if you think it through, and very out of proportion to the act itself.

If you can't figure out a better way to influence her behavior than giving a relationship ending ultimatum, you'd probably be wise to think about your own shortcomings rather than worrying about her behavior.

THANKS MATTONS.

Out of proportion according to whom? We have different values and different boundaries, and different things are going to send us over the edge. Some people believe in polyamory; to others it's a dealbreaker. When values are relative -- which they are -- you have to be flexible enough to accept others' values, but strong enough to fight for your own.

When things don't match up and a relationship ends, it's not someone's fault, it's just a relationship playing out its natural course. This is what happens when you try to put together two people with different values: you set expectations, you realize that they can't be met, you leave. Then you go find someone else who can meet those expectations.

good posters stick together, bruh.


mostly I've just been looking for an opporunity to complain about the horrible state of 90% of the advice posted in this thread. PingClown, it's barely your fault. Lots of people who have nfi what they're talking about like posting with authority.

[back to lurking]

To expand:

In general, I actually post 5-10% of the posts I type (site-wide, ex WW). I know this on the low side, but still, I feel like everyone needs to ask themselves whether they have something differentiated to say about something on which they have expertise before they post. It would especially help out threads like these, where someone seeking advice might not be able to differentiate good advice from bad.

Go ahead and break up with her. The dishes thing is annoying I'm sure, but if there were not other issues in the relationship it wouldn't really bother you. Its just tough to leave that relationship comfort zone but you'll both be better off for it.

11t, was she aware that you are contemplating breaking up over this before yesterday? I think breaking up after a single day is on the harsh side, give her a week or so imo.

Maybe suggest that she pays for a cleaning lady until she fixes her anxiety issues if you are interested in working things out. But it sounds more like you are also annoyed by other stuff and just want out.

5-10% seems ridiculously low. Of the posts I type, I probably post 60-80%. I've gotten better at detecting earlier whether what I'm typing is dumb, but there are plenty of times I'll post and I'll read it again and think: this was wholly unnecessary & borderline ******ed.

Super-high-volume sites like reddit need upvoting/downvoting to help separate the wheat from chaff, and even they're absolutely drowning in garbage advice from idiots. It's just what happens. It still sucks when quality voices get drowned out (R.I.P. Mittens).

Of course there are other things, the crux of the problem is just general laziness and her inability to work when she doesn't want to. She had a fullride scholarship to a solid private university and had to drop out because she failed some random general requirement classes because she thought they were pointless. She gets up and works hard at her part time job (gets up, makes it there on time) but won't get up and work hard when I need her to.

The other stuff isn't a deal breaker though, she can go to a community college and get a good associates degree and do fine. She can gain a little weight or lose a little weight I don't really care, but I know she wants to lose weight so I try to help her out (I'm a fitness nut) without telling her what to do. The cleanliness of where I live is a deal breaker though. Coming home and having it be trashed every day is simply unacceptable. Yesterday I took out the trash before I went to work, when I got off of work (she was at the gym) she had thrown stuff in the garbage without putting a bag in. Like wtf is that. The other stuff can slide, I don't care about it. This I ****ing care about.

Also this is a long time coming and she knows how I feel about the dishes. The biggest problem is that I have to always ask every time and she still doesn't do it. She is too tired to clean after work and she just wants to rest on her day off. I clean basically every day but its gotten to the point where I just can't keep picking up the slack and when I tell her I need her help she doesn't do it and the dishes pile up higher and higher (we have to hand wash them) and then its this huge issue where she just starts crying and begs for me to help her.

I am not asking for spotless, I want organized chaos. I used to always joke and tell her "garbage goes in the garbage and dishes go in the sink" but it isn't funny any more. It is disgusting and I can't take it.

Even if everything else was perfect, this would still be a deal breaker. It is so disrespectful that it makes me feel like I'm being used.

Furthermore like two weeks ago I asked her to "put away the ****ing milk" (I didn't yell or anything) after she ate some cereal and just left the milk and her dishes on the coffee table and I went to the gym. When I got back she was asleep and I couldn't wake her up and it turned out she took like triple the dose of her anxiety pills which make her drowsy. I don't think it was a suicide attempt just her knowing I was pissed and trying to deal with her response but I almost called 911 and had her taken in. I basically had never seen her like this but she must have been crying uncontrollably while I was at the gym because the pillows were soaked with tears and snot. After about 30 seconds of me trying to get her up she got up though and was lucid (just very groggy) and the next day she apologized and said she was worried I was going to break up with her and I said, "if you don't start helping me I have to. You know how badly this effects me and I need help around here." and things haven't changed at all since then.

Yes, yes, these are all great intermediate solutions, but the point is that he needs her 100% commitment to a long-term process of improvement, and he needs it today.

Leading with wishy-washy solutions in a time of crisis is not going to communicate that you are dead-****ing-serious about how important this is to you. You need to sit a person down, give them a non-judgmental observation ("I've noticed that you haven't been holding up your end of the bargain"), tell them how that makes you feel ("This makes me feel used and exhausted, and I'm at the end of my rope"), explain your needs ("I want a relationship where we're willing to share the weight of responsibilities"), and make your request ("Will you commit to improvement?"). Once they say no, you leave. If they say yes, you immediately lay down strict, tangible guidelines as to how things will operate (structure and purpose), and you make sure that the emotional issues will be addressed as well (therapy, treatment for anxiety/depression, etc).

It's not getting drowned out per se that lead me to stop posting. I just can't completely reconcile posting on the internet about anything (let alone dating) with being a normal human. I figure if I'm embarrassed by the possibility of people knowing I do this, then I probably just shouldn't do it. Separately, I think people post too much.

this came out harsh. I feel more confident about the unbloded section than the bolded.

11t, I don't know how your ultimatum is going to play out -- whether she leaves or you let her stay -- but everything sounds really unhealthy and the prognosis is likely dismal.

Hygiene and good grooming are attractive to us because it signals that this is someone who has enough time and energy to put into their appearance and their personal space, someone who's able to take care of the crap that life throws at them without feeling drained or overwhelmed, someone who can take care of the things they have to even when they don't want to. It signals that we are mentally and emotionally healthy.

Mattons, I learned to stop caring about posting on the internet because I started embracing that it gives me opportunities to step outside my comfort zone, think about situations, and communicate how I feel. Those things directly benefit me at work, in relationships, with friends, and as a person in general. It's like learning how to play poker live vs. online: I get to play way more hands than I ever could live.

Also, you're supposedly rad, so why would you feel embarrassed if someone found out that you posted on 2p2? Do you have difficulty brushing that off?

How has no one thought about the fact they live together so he would be putting plates in his own bed??
I suggest baby powder in her hairdryer to teach her a lesson.

Gf did some dishes and was visibly upset because she knew I was thinking about leaving her. I took it as an act of good faith and we had a good conversation. She knows the apartment is a sty and I understand why it feels over whelming which is basically her anxiety. I had her write out a to do list of all the stuff we had to get done and it was like five items and she realized it wasn't that much stuff.

I'm going to work with her to make to do lists every day to help her organize her thoughts and deal with bring over overwhelmed and as long is there is improvement I'm fine.

After reading what you wrote, you sound terrible for each other. She's clearly depressed and going through a crisis, and you seem not to understand her (fitness nuts aren't known for their emotional subtlety).

You sound like you'd get on really well with a woman like you - organized, "normal", a bit cut off from empathy, perhaps into fitness herself. You have qualities many women like in a man.

She sounds like she needs someone caring, strong and capable of reaching her emotionally - you clearly aren't.

Why not just break up?

good stuff...but this is likely temporary . i lived w/ a girl who suffered from anxiety (for some reason i tend to find these girls all the time lol) and i couldn't leave her alone in the apartment for a night. i wasn't doing much traveling at the time but if i did, she'd have driven home (from RI to NY). if it was a weekday, i'm not sure what she'd have done. overall, her anxiety carried over to many other aspects (panic attacks, random fears etc.) so while you may have made progress on this battle line, others will almost surely present themselves.

anxiety is a big deal. you should be prepared for many other things like this that may or may not drive you nuts but where you'll have to be the calming voice. i've been that voice for the better part of my dating life and i came to terms with it a while ago. instead of changing myself though, i've looked to date less anxious people (without much success).

it seems the girl i met skiing is by far the least anxious and she actually texted me while i was skiing in utah this past weekend to apologize for being so busy, to tell me she had work thursday, but would love to go out friday.

i don't think you have the option of dating less anxious people so i guess instead, prepare to be that calming and understanding voice.

Muttons,

"I have no differentiated opinion to offer"
"whether they have something differentiated to say"
"might not be able to differentiate"

Phew...

El Diablo,

I'll up my synonym game in the future so as to avoid being on the wrong side of a cutting diction burn like that one.