Nice work, bb.

thanks for posting all of this bb, excellent read

I'm sorry that I've been so slow getting in my responses...I thought I was starting this thread at an ideal time, that it would be a couple/few weeks where the work/life load would be slower...it turns out I was wrong. Rather than continue to let the posts continue to mount, I'm just going to try and get a response or two in whenever I have time. I just tend to write so much (obviously), which takes quite a while...so I keep trying to wait until I have a bunch of time to really give the answers in the depth I'd like. Since that doesn't seem to be happening, I'll get in as much as I can, when I can.

I drink when I feel like it and accept that it will stall my weight loss. This is a long-term thing, with long-term implications. I honestly don't much care if I get stalled for a week or two because I feel like going on a bender, or feel like having a few (miller lite, as it's the lowest carb one usually available) beers at a ballgame or whatever.

FWIW, hard alcohol is the lowest in carbs, which wasn't too hard for me as when I drink, I like to drink Jack Daniel's. In tremendous volume, on occasion.

I am not on a diet, with short-term implications. This whole thing has been about re-learning how to eat - for life - and as such how to make it livable. Getting unimaginably hammered is one thing that I enjoy from time to time, so...

-bb.

Based on what? What grounds do you have to say this? Because I probably interact with a LOT more fat people than you do through the internet, and I can not name a single one that has not tried everything they can to try and beat it. Not ONE. Period.

See my above post for the reasons WHY someone might have given up. But that doesn't mean that they aren't going to try again, nor that they haven't tried - REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hard - to beat it. I fatigued on it and honestly just could not try for a couple of years. I'd tried - I thought - everything. I've yet to meet one fat person who hasn't. Did I "lack strength?" No. Was I beat up from the experience and needing some time to regroup? Yes. That does NOT mean that I am - or was - weak. It is harder than you can imagine to try over and over and over and over and over again, only to fail. But, to use a cliche, it's not how many times you fall down, it's whether you get back up again.

Reading fatness as equating to weakness is just plain wrong.

Nor is anything else I tried, all of which are "supposed" to work, none of which did. Is Weight Watchers a secret? Nutrisystem? The AHA diet? Etc, etc, etc.? How do you know which one will work for you?? Are you supposed to just "know?"

NO ONE who is way overweight doesn't really, really, really, really, really want to lose weight. None that I've met. And again, how are you supposed to know WHAT's going to work for you? Because - speaking from experience - they don't all work for every person. Nor do they all teach you how to continue to eat once you're "done" with them. Any diet that ends is a bad diet, and most of the accepted diets end.

If you're even TRYING a fad diet, it's BECAUSE you tried everything else. WTF, do you REALLY think that someone's going to jump into the "X" diet of the month WITHOUT trying the ones that have a proven track record first? If so, you're wrong. Seriously. You're just plain mistaken.

Further, how do you KNOW it's a "fad" diet?? Atkins was supposedly a "fad" diet, too...until studies started showing its effectiveness, and the fact that it didn't have adverse health effects. Now you can't name me a major diet plan that doesn't include some form of carb control - even if they don't call it such.

You're wrong. I'm me, you're not, you don't get to say. I am the same human being - in essence - as I was before I lost the weight. I can do new things, I don't get hassled. That doesn't change who I am. I'm sorry if you don't like that answer. It is true. How would you know??

Yeah, I was an atheist kid at a christian camp. I was an atheist kid that had to go to church every single Sunday. So yeah, I know about that, too. I know about what you're talking about. The thing is, that when you're ostracized, it stopped for you when you left the camp, left the school, whatever. I was different internally and got knocked before I said a thing because of what I looked like. So you can give me this "trial by fire" [censored] all you want, but again, take every time you've felt ostracized, every time you've had problems, then imagine it exacerbated - and not in a small way - by being a social pariah because of how you look.

Every problem a thin person has, a fat person has, too. Then they have other sets of problems that thin people don't. Health ones, yes, but also a HUGE set of social ones that are undeniable. If you don't get that, or can't look past your bias to see how that might really, really [censored] with your quality of life, there's nothing else I can say. If you can't see how having to deal with that every single day of your life would make you a stronger - NOT weaker - person, then again, I'm sorry, we just disagree. I've been on both sides of the fence, I know what I'm talking about here. My problems didn't go away because I lost weight - I still have the kinds of problems you're talking about, the same kinds of problems EVERYONE has. But I DON'T have that additional burden of being constantly prejudged by ignorant people, and that makes life very, very, very different. Thin people don't know or understand what that's like, and while diminishing that reality might make you feel more at ease with your worldview, your assumptions about people's character or your seeming belief that it's not any different than having been ostracized one week at camp or in school is just plain wrong. I've been on both sides of the fence, and it is very, very different.

On your "trial by fire" comment - I have no regrets about myself. I DID eventually just say "[censored] it" to people who prejudged me, and I did whatever I had to do to be able to look myself in the mirror every day, anyone who didn't like it be damned. But so what?? Do you think the people who ostracized you for being jewish were RIGHT?? Because they weren't, just as people ostracizing fat people are wrong. It doesn't matter that it made me stronger - it doesn't make it right. The reason why I'm addressing the issue is because it's NOT right. I'm not whining in every forum about "treat fat people with respect!" I started a thread about weight loss, and an element of that is what it's like to be that fat. Should I just avoid the topic because it's uncomfortable or something?? These are not randomly interjected anecdotes in unrelated, off-topic threads. They're things I've brought up within a designated context to provide some insight into what it's like for people who don't have any idea. To give you an idea of how hard the social stigma is, I've even gotten PM's from people who've said the same kinds of things to me in them, but who have literally said to me that they don't want to post in this thread because of the attached negative perception that might result. This is on an essentially anonymous message board! If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will.

No, it's not. It is definitely hyperbole - I'll cop to that. But again, my point stands and I have no regrets writing it. Skinny people telling fat people that they lack strength or character is, to me, just absurd, because they have all the same problems as skinny people PLUS the addition burdens related to how they are perceived.

-bb.

BB,

You're wrong when you say that you can't motivate people. This thread, especially the OP, has motivated the hell out of me.

I hope I get to start a thread like this in a year or two.

Props to BB for a great thread and for eloquently making the case that he is the same person inside before and after.

About a year ago I revised my diet to average about 100 carbs per day. It's been really good change for me and I feel better overall. It's also something I will continue to do long term.

I didn't use any diet's specific plan, just tracking carbs and calories. For the first few months I tracked everything on Fitday, (which is free and pretty user friendly), until it became pretty much second nature.

If anyone decides to go this route, there are low carb options available, e.g. Brownberry Carb Control bread, low carb wraps and tortillas, etc. Feel free to PM me with any specific food questions if I can help.

Fitday is an awesome resource.

Sorry again for not keeping up with the thread...getting in one or two answers now.

Not sure if I touched on this already, but here you go...

There wasn't really one turning point...over the course of my life, there were many, especially because I tried so many times. But if I had to pick the two things that were the biggest precursors to this attempt, it would be one time when my father, who's a doctor, took me out to lunch and while there told me about Syndrome X, aka prediabetes, and how he thought that he recognized in me a lot of the symptoms. He also talked about how my uncle had been diabetic and managed to reverse it (get completely off medication) through diet (South Beach for him) and exercise. He managed to do this in a very discreet, nonjudgemental, factual way - not "you suck, you're fat," but in a "this is what I see, this is what it might mean," kind of way.

It was undeniable that I had pretty much all of the symptoms, and I looked into it and into diabetes (which is a terrifying disease to me). I also looked more into low carbohydrate diets because of my uncle's and some family friends' success with South Beach and a couple of co-workers success with Atkins. All of the people who managed to lose were people I'd not expect to be able to do it, and all of them said basically the same thing - that once you got used to it it was easy, that you weren't hungry, that you didn't have cravings, etc. Several life-long overweight people. So that was one thing.

The other thing, which I already mentioned, was an experience playing with my nephews the christmas before I started doing low carb. Those kids love me and all they want to do when they see me is run me ragged, playing "football" (basically just them tackling me), wrestling, playing tag, running all around and being kids. Christmas 2005 I was playing with them and felt like I was going to die after 15 minutes, and actually even needed to take a nap after just a few minutes playing with them on multiple occasions. As I said before, I realized, "this kid is going to put me in a box, and he's barely going to remember my name."

My father's father (who was not obese, fwiw) died when I was about 2 or 3; my nephews at the time were about to turn 2 and 4 at the time, I believe. I have no real recollection of my grandfather, and that in light of my nephews really had an impact on me.

But really, I had to be doing it for myself. I had to be doing it because *I* wanted to be around, not because they would want me to be around. As far as I can tell, it just can't work that way. You really have to have a selfish stake in your own health - which is not a bad thing. You have to want it for you, not for your family, not for your kids, not for anyone but you. In my interactions with other people who've lost a lot of weight, not one has succeeded who was doing it for anyone else.

So really, the main motivating factor was really just feeling like I wanted a worthwhile life. There were so many times I'd tried to do it and I'd set my sights at something other than that, other than just feeling healthy and being happy. If your motivation is pure and simple, your ability to stay on plan is much easier. It's not a dramatic, life or death thing (even if it kind of is), it's a lifestyle.

-bb.

Congratulations, bb. Your story is very inspiring.

You and Dids are living proof that determination and intelligence can beat pretty much anything. I feel sorry for the people that are genetically like you physically but don't have the balls and intelligence that you have to defeat their problems. What would you say to someone in that position?

A quick interjection. If you have any interest in weight loss, nutrition, why low carb works, or you believe that obesity is a moral/character issue rather than a physiological one, PLEASE watch this:

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_de...ebcastid=21216

It's a lecture by Gary Taubes at UC Berkeley from November. He's the one who wrote the Good Calories, Bad Calories book that I referenced earlier. It is, imo, excellent and should be required viewing for anyone who is overweight or who thinks ill of overweight people. It's fairly long but very, very interesting and very fact (rather than emotionally or psuedo-science) driven. I'm biased due to my interest in the subject, obviously, but I find it fascinating.

-bb.

I think the fact that people don't understand the concept of variance, and the fact that variance exists in weight loss as you have mentioned, is one of the major, if not the most important reason, people who start diets fail.

good job dude.

gary taubes' book and lecture are both very good.

no question, but i know i have always been a little unsympathetic towards fat people, perhaps even disdainful, and just made me think of how ****ty that is of me. i used to tell myself it was the lack of self respect i was disdainful of, but i know that if i wasnt genetically lucky i would be chubby at least (i eat so much crap).

but my main point is congratulations. reading the whole thing i just felt impressed, and it made me think about sorting things out in my own life. good work, keep it up!

really inspiring story

You should get into weightlifting (more than just the kettleballs) and try to completely transform your body.. at least more so than you already have. Great story and very well written.

BB,

Absolutely awesome story, and whenever I get inquiries from fat or obese people as to how to what diets or programs work, I more or less recommend what you've done. Steady loss based on consistent exercise and substantial dietary changes.

My only real comment (besides congrats, keep it up, gl, etc.) is with respect to your feelings about The Biggest Loser. I love that show, you hate it, I've seen almost every season, I think you said you've seen one (granted you've got your ear closer to the ground on message boards and what not). I read the article you cited, and I think that one MUST keep in mind that it is a competition, and of course when there's 1/4 million up for grabs people are naturally going to be cutting through water and extreme diet, just like wrestling/boxing/any weight-class sport, leading up to that final day. And when that is going on regaining 7-14kg of weight within the next week, heck, days even, is expected. The important thing to recognize is that these people are losing up to 50% of their body weight, and from the many episodes I've seen have been properly educated on how to re-integrate into the "real world" after the show.

In my opinion, these contestants are mostly coming to the show from the same dysmal hole that you yourself were in, not knowing where to go, depressed, and having tried tons of programs. Yes, they are working out an impossible-to-maintain amount, but the trainers CONSTANTLY remind them of that exact point and that they will also not have their food intake monitored, and probably more importantly, that they have their gigantic motivation and support system removed. When you get that kind of attention and help, and you show that level of success, if you go back to "obese" when you leave that show its entirely your fault.

Mainly I just think that by blaming the show for some of the contestants unsuccessful re-introduction into society, you're removing or ignoring the single most important element of physical fitness, personal accountability. The one thing that every single fat, obese, or otherwise unhealthy person that I know has in common is a lack of said trait. You lacked it for years, made excuses, and then magically one day just took it into your own hands, which is awesome. My stance on this whole issue always comes out bullheaded and not PC, but I try to tell everybody the only thing you can do to get in better shape is to stop-whining, stop making excuses, accept your circumstances, and get your **** together. You, my friend, are a shining example of that level of mentality change that is necessary to be successful in every aspect of life. Keep it up.

any update on this guy and his story? Has he kept most of the weight off?

He hasnt posted on 2p2 since 12-19-2007 so i hope the guys ok.

Not sure if someone mentioned this, but pics?

Lol, oops, didn't see that I just posted that response....

2x already, I think we'd all like to see them after reading the story, but dude doesn't want to post them to the 2p2 dogs.

Anyways great read, and congrats.

Great Job.. im currently on a prop bet to lose 70 pounds in 8 months... You my friend just gave me more motivation...

Awesome!

You're in luck.

Nice Thanks Mortal, makes me feel happier.

This prop bet wasn't too easy for me to do though. When taking it I was 6'4 294 but still extremely athletic. I played football in high school, and currently play Men's AA baseball. The bet was from my team's shortstop who is a pretty close friend and wants to see me live a healthier life. He put up $1500 on September 1(Not much for some, but im a 22 year old Uni student) that I couldnt weigh in at 225 for the start of the next season (May 1). Currently on December 10, I weigh in at 255.

Things I did:
1. Eat much healthier (mostly chicken and fish), no added sugar/salt to anything. Limit calory intake to calories from fat being less than 1/3 of total calories.
2. Excersize 4-5 times per week except during midterms and finals where I pretty much stop altogether.

Down from 445lbs... major props OP nice work