he's playing 34/3 1.7 AF

What is your thinking on the flop?

2.50-3 pre. Bet flop for value...you get called by a hell of a lot of club draws. As played i'm raising turn and looking to get it in. He's pretty passive but he'll play pair+draws this way as well as weaker sets/maybe 2 pair and maybe NFD. If he's got the goods you've got outs.

we have to check-call with something.?

but your right its not the right spot to c/c
even if he bets flop IP vs missed cb 84% he will not stab this board (3way) i guess

People can't flop flushes?

The call on the flop is really bad if you're going to not like this turn. I would hate a club waaaaay more than actually binking my set.

Course they can but that's only a small part of villain's range

I wasnt saying it was good or bad just wondered what was the thinking behind playing your hand like this.

When you get to a decision on the river in a hand like this, and you really don't know what to do, it usually indicates a mistake on an earlier street.

In my opinion, this hand went wrong when you surrendered the initiative on the flop; now you've no idea where you're at, and you've let villain set the price on each street.

You can't call the flop to try and hit your flush draw, because if it comes in you're only getting action from better unless villain is a super fish.

You're not getting the odds to draw (to a boat) on the turn. Thus you have to make the decision on the turn to either fold, ship it or call down (unless a very good or very bad card comes). Calling the turn then folding on a brick river in spots like this is the worst option. Don't call the turn hoping that the river gets checked and you show down a winner, because it rarely happens.

I totally disagree. Poker is chock full of marginal decisions.

If you know exactly what to do in every spot, than your almost surely doing something wrong.

Flops seems close between betting and checking.

Turns seems standard.

Fold river.

He is right though. If you call this flop you call for 2 reasons. Bink a T or bink a club. He pretty much hits gin on the turn and now doesnt like it. Might just as well fold flop then.

Plus he also makes a fairly marginal mistake on the turn if you ask me. As mentioned he can't call to boat up simply because of the odds he isn't getting. So calling there is because we think we're ahead. It's absolutely terrible to fold on that river than.

No. The villains bet range on the flop isn't the same as the turn. The Villain will continue to bet all is value hands but he'll stop betting all his bluffs. In other words, his turn betting range is stronger than his flop betting range.

What are you even trying to say? Of course his betting range on the turn is stronger. Everyone agrees on that. That still doesn't change the fact that the call on the flop and on the turn is horrible if youre folding a blank river thus a mistake has been made on a prior street. The turn in this case. I notice I mentioned flop earlier. Apologies I meant turn.

Well let's try it this way. You need to fold the bottom of your range on every street regardless if the card that fell is a 'blank'. So why can't pocket Tens be at the bottom of our river range?