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Old 08-13-2012, 12:12 PM   #106
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Re: River raise too thin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokie View Post
But the entire community doesn't think I am wrong, some posters feel that a lot of these hands aren't clear cut, whereas some like to chime in with the level 1 thinking interpretation of ''Lol, I have a set, lets raise and put my stack in and play my hand face up''.

Yeah, I've played some hands bad and I still like to hear people's opinions about stuff, but the flat call with KK and then folding it on the turn etc are pretty standard things to do. You don't always have to 3bet with it, particularly if your opponent folds to 96% of 3bets... now THAT sucks. How do I adapt, I 3bet with air against them, and flat my premiums. Until I see them adapt back, I don't have to worry about it, I am exploiting them.
Who has said that you are playing hands correctly? Every hand that you post, 99% of people say "Wtf are you doing, you are playing the hand wrong".

I wasn't talking about a KK hand, I don't even know what KK hand you are referring to specifically. Just in general, everyone is saying you are playing your hands wrong. Period. No one has said "nh, well played".
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #107
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Re: River raise too thin?

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Originally Posted by PokerRon247 View Post
This post shows a huge lack of understanding. Basically you're going to be either massively unbalanced or you're missing a ton of value in way more spots than you're gaining when your slowplays work.
My slowplays are working if the other reg is betting. If they don't bet, and instead check, then I bet my hand and get value for it the traditional way, which is no different to how you would play it.

I only stay passive if I am IP and the reg is betting into me hard.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:16 PM   #108
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Re: River raise too thin?

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Originally Posted by Pokie View Post
My slowplays are working if the other reg is betting. If they don't, and instead check, then I bet my hand and get value for it the traditional way, which is no different to how you would play it.

I only stay passive if I am IP and the reg is betting into me hard.
This isn't true at all. You posted multiple hands where you are OOP, you have monster hands (but not nuts), and you just check call on wet boards.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:01 PM   #109
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Re: River raise too thin?

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Originally Posted by chaser3 View Post
This isn't true at all. You posted multiple hands where you are OOP, you have monster hands (but not nuts), and you just check call on wet boards.
Alright, what about these, did I play them badly?

Hand 1

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $10.00
BB: $25.00
UTG: $25.35
UTG+1: $60.61
Hero (MP): $25.93
MP+1: $7.05
CO: $10.15
BTN: $9.83

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 8 8

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.65, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.25, 3 players) 8 J Q
SB checks, BB bets $1.39, Hero calls $1.39, fold

Turn: ($5.03, 2 players) 6
BB checks, Hero bets $3.12, BB calls $3.12

River: ($11.27, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero bets $6.99, fold

Hero wins $10.76

Hand 2

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $31.12
BB: $29.30
UTG: $12.31
UTG+1: $24.65
MP: $35.34
Hero (MP+1): $25.35
LP: $23.90
CO: $25.00
BTN: $19.12

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has J J

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, LP raises to $2.25, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.85, 2 players) Q K J
Hero checks, LP bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75

Turn: ($10.35, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, LP bets $4.00, Hero calls $4.00

River: ($18.35, 2 players) K
Hero checks, LP bets $3.75, Hero raises to $15.00, LP calls $11.15 and is all-in

Hero shows J J (Full House, Jacks full of Kings) (Pre 57%, Flop 85%, Turn 91%)
LP mucks K A (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 43%, Flop 15%, Turn 9%)
Hero wins $46.15

Hand 3

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $47.09
Hero (BB): $26.89
UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $22.19
MP: $25.00
MP+1: $24.00
LP: $13.22
CO: $23.32
BTN: $25.00

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 9 9

fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, fold, MP+1 raises to $1.25, LP calls $1.25, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.00, fold

Flop: ($4.10, 3 players) A J 9
Hero checks, MP+1 checks, LP bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, fold

Turn: ($7.10, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, LP checks

River: ($7.10, 2 players) 2
Hero bets $5.22, fold

Hero wins $6.78

Hand 4

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG+1: $22.67
MP: $8.87
MP+1: $25.02
CO: $30.75
BTN: $5.71
Hero (SB): $25.00
BB: $10.00
UTG: $28.35

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 5 5

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.75, fold, Hero raises to $2.50, fold, CO calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25, 2 players) A T 5
Hero bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50

Turn: ($10.25, 2 players) 4
Hero bets $4.89, CO calls $4.89

River: ($20.03, 2 players) 8
Hero bets $15.11 and is all-in, fold

Hero wins $19.13

Hand 5

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG+1: $25.99
MP: $73.58
MP+1: $29.65
LP: $10.00
CO: $25.88
Hero (BTN): $31.07
SB: $17.03
BB: $28.60
UTG: $18.74

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 5 5

UTG calls $0.25, fold, MP raises to $1.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.00, fold, BB calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75

Flop: ($4.10, 4 players) 5 A T
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $2.54, BB calls $2.54, fold, fold

Turn: ($9.18, 2 players) J
BB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $3.75, BB calls $2.25

River: ($16.68, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero checks

BB shows J A (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks) (Pre 49%, Flop 7%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows 5 5 (Three of a Kind, Fives) (Pre 51%, Flop 93%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins $15.93

Hand 6

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $50.51
MP+1: $24.05
Hero (LP): $27.50
CO: $26.16
BTN: $25.00
SB: $40.53
BB: $30.83
UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $18.08

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 5 5

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, fold, BTN calls $0.75, fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35, 3 players) 5 T 6
BB checks, Hero bets $1.45, fold, BB raises to $2.90, Hero calls $1.45

Turn: ($8.15, 2 players) 8
BB bets $5.75, Hero calls $5.75

River: ($19.65, 2 players) 4
BB bets $20.75, fold

BB wins $18.77

Hand 7

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $6.98
Hero (BB): $32.17
UTG: $27.41
UTG+1: $20.98
MP: $20.02
CO: $11.39
BTN: $9.65

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has T T

fold, fold, MP raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35, 3 players) Q T J
Hero checks, MP bets $2.00, fold, Hero calls $2.00

Turn: ($6.35, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, MP bets $4.00, Hero calls $4.00

River: ($14.35, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, MP checks

Hero shows T T (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 84%, Flop 94%, Turn 100%)
MP mucks 2 5 (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 16%, Flop 6%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins $13.70

Hand 8

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $17.33
MP+1: $18.82
Hero (CO): $29.82
BTN: $31.19
SB: $25.00
BB: $10.93
UTG: $30.41
UTG+1: $37.37

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 4 4

fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.70, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.70, fold, SB calls $0.60, fold

Flop: ($2.35, 3 players) J 5 4
SB bets $1.12, fold, Hero calls $1.12

Turn: ($4.59, 2 players) 6
SB checks, Hero bets $2.19, SB calls $2.19

River: ($8.97, 2 players) J
SB checks, Hero bets $6.59, SB calls $6.59

Hero shows 4 4 (Full House, Fours full of Jacks) (Pre 50%, Flop 94%, Turn 100%)
SB mucks J K (Three of a Kind, Jacks) (Pre 50%, Flop 6%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins $21.15


Hand 9

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $38.13
SB: $24.08
BB: $26.51
UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $25.86
MP: $36.29
Hero (MP+1): $26.77
CO: $10.00

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 7 7

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, fold, BTN calls $0.75, fold, fold

Flop: ($1.85, 2 players) T 7 Q
Hero bets $1.15, BTN raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $3.85, BTN calls $1.35

Turn: ($9.55, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75

River: ($17.05, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, BTN checks

Hero shows 7 7 (Flush, Queen High) (Pre 52%, Flop 94%, Turn 91%)
BTN mucks Q J (Two Pair, Queens and Jacks) (Pre 48%, Flop 6%, Turn 9%)
Hero wins $16.28

Hand 10

PokerStars - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $18.90
MP+1: $30.96
LP: $35.92
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $11.65
SB: $39.84
BB: $28.83
UTG: $24.51
UTG+1: $12.56

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 3 3

fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.50, fold, MP+1 calls $0.50, fold, Hero calls $0.50, fold, SB calls $0.40, BB calls $0.25

Flop: ($2.50, 5 players) 3 7 A
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP+1 bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25, fold, fold, fold

Turn: ($5.00, 2 players) 7
MP+1 checks, Hero bets $3.10, MP+1 calls $3.10

River: ($11.20, 2 players) 2
MP+1 checks, Hero bets $8.23

fold

MP+1 mucks A K (Two Pair, Aces and Sevens)
Hero wins $10.70
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:20 PM   #110
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Re: River raise too thin?

lol, wow. That is just plain terrible. I don't know where to start.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:33 PM   #111
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Re: River raise too thin?

Hand 2 is such a lie. You would never raise that river. In fact you would fold it because you have like the 25th nuts. I dont understand why you keep posting hh, most of them you post are, well not great to say the least. And then sometimes you post the occasional ''look how I outplayed him'' hh which is a total lie, because it goes completely against the way you play poker.

And to come back on a overly stated point. People try to help you, no one is bashing your style, if you wish to trap 24/7 go ahead its your money. This however doesn't mean there aren't ways that will make you a lot more money and thats what people are trying to point out.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:45 PM   #112
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Re: River raise too thin?

for ****s sake, seriously guys, enough free coaching, for what ***** reason does this guy deserve special treatment?
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:11 PM   #113
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Re: River raise too thin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicham009 View Post
...
And to come back on a overly stated point. People try to help you, no one is bashing your style, if you wish to trap 24/7 go ahead its your money. This however doesn't mean there aren't ways that will make you a lot more money and thats what people are trying to point out.
Was going to post something just like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobe4funas View Post
for ****s sake, seriously guys, enough free coaching, for what ***** reason does this guy deserve special treatment?
I don't think any of the post's in here are of 'special treatment' as you put it. All we can do is offer the best advice we see fit (which is why people post HH in the first place), and if OP either does not understand / take onboard or even not care about what is being said then that is his choice. But I do not think that should be a reason for people to not respond with advice as there are no doubt many people reading the thread and the countless HH that OP has posted who may be in a similar situation and they may well appreciate the advice given. So just because OP does not agree with it, does not mean other people can not take the advice on board.

Although i do understand where your frustration is coming from.

OP, if you post HH to get feedback / advice ect, then at least listen / take onboard what is being said. If you disagree with it then thats is totally fine. but please do not just disregard it and assume it is people bashing your style. People are giving advice they believe will help you!
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:14 PM   #114
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Re: River raise too thin?

Most of those hands are played badly. Your betsizing is universally horrible and there are plenty of places where you can get way more value by raising/betting rather than calling/checking and hoping for Villain to run a bluff. I'd help out more by pointing out each individual mistake and by giving detailed reasons behind each mistake, but as tobe points out you don't deserve special treatment and you've got far too much attention already despite being an ass to most ppl that have tried to help you.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:16 PM   #115
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Re: River raise too thin?

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Originally Posted by tobe4funas View Post
for ****s sake, seriously guys, enough free coaching, for what ***** reason does this guy deserve special treatment?
Says the guy that posts five threads per day...
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:30 PM   #116
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Re: River raise too thin?

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Originally Posted by Kreuznagel View Post
Says the guy that posts five threads per day...
i also post at 20 threads a day, is there a problem? No need for exagerations here, you know what kind of replies i get most of the time, small stakes forum aint the micro forum, few people give there honest answers and out of them only a couple will ellaborate and explain something. Take my last thread for example, is there a single answer from which u could possibly learn something beyond what to do and what dont? Did anyone say why not, why it's bad? Unless you think that a guy's who is playing 200NL LIVE opinion is just as good as 200NL online regs opinion then in that case among 2 pages long thread i received 2 answers out of which 1 was only about 1 street, while personally i have doubts about every single one.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:15 PM   #117
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Re: River raise too thin?

Pokie also gives advice in lots of threads. And most of this thread is not actual coaching, but people bashing him/telling him he's losing value.
Seems you are just envious, which is totally uncalled for. You know, there's probably a reason for people trolling you a lot. You don't have to try and ruin it for others, too.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:20 PM   #118
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Re: River raise too thin?

Really would like to see a graph/stats if you wouldn't mind pokie?
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:25 PM   #119
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Re: River raise too thin?

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Originally Posted by nismo9 View Post
Really would like to see a graph/stats if you wouldn't mind pokie?
yea, please !
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:27 PM   #120
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Re: River raise too thin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreuznagel View Post
Pokie also gives advice in lots of threads. And most of this thread is not actual coaching, but people bashing him/telling him he's losing value.
Seems you are just envious, which is totally uncalled for. You know, there's probably a reason for people trolling you a lot. You don't have to try and ruin it for others, too.
Not defending anyone really but to be fair, all of his threads started off with giving him proper coaching/advice/what ever u wish to call it. It turned out into a yes/no contest after he decided to ignore everyones's advice for like the 20th time.

Quote:
telling him he's losing value.
This is a form of coaching/giving advice isnt it?
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