Question with QQ preflop in a vacuum - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Question with QQ preflop in a vacuum

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09-19-2014 , 01:46 PM

uberkuber

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,032

Let's say you have QQ UTG at Zoom FR NL25 and you raise 3bb with a stack of 100bb before the hand.

Villain 3-bet to 9bb in MP. He also has a 100bb stack and we have no real read on him. (We could assume he's a Zoom FR NL25 prototypical taggish reg, but no real tendencies post-flop.)

Question 1: Would you flat or 4-bet?
Question 2: If you flat and 3 undercards flop, what do you do?
Question 3: If you 4-bet and he 5-bet shoves, do you call?

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09-20-2014 , 03:14 AM

coldeu

adept

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 776

People might shoot at me by saying this, but folding QQ to 3 bet when opening UTG against a possible Tag/reg with no reads playing 4 zoom tables I wouldnt be that unhappy.
calling is fine aswell I think.
Definitely not 4beting bluff QQ on that spot.

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09-20-2014 , 04:05 AM

Phase Shift

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 86

call 3bet

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09-20-2014 , 04:16 AM

A10d

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 21

Question 1: Would you flat or 4-bet?
Flat

Question 2: If you flat and 3 undercards flop, what do you do?
Give him the lead , go with reads on each street

Question 3: If you 4-bet and he 5-bet shoves, do you call
never

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09-20-2014 , 05:48 AM

CrazyAndy27s

adept

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 790

With a standard RFI opening range in UTG, we have no need to defend QQ facing a 3b OOP imo.

Plus, it's just super gross to flat pre here as his range most probably is polarised weighted to value (which is basically just AA).

So I just fold it.

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09-20-2014 , 05:56 AM

Thuen88

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,329

People in here should filter this scenario in their database and see how they`re doing when flatting a 3b OOP UTG. Im guessing most of you are overplaying your hand and losing a lot. This is why i don`t mind folding QQ in this scenario and be super exploitable. (Most regs don`t exploit you nearly enough at this limit anyway).

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09-21-2014 , 07:09 PM

There_There

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 66

I think this a great question fwiw. I flat 3 bet and x/c flop and proceed to get valuetowned by AA & KK on later streets. It's a good strat.

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09-22-2014 , 12:36 AM

uberkuber

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,032

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thuen88

Good idea. I have 44 hands in my DB where I called a 3-bet from MP (from my open in EP, couldn't find how to specify UTG exactly). I lost about 34$, which is around 300bb/100, so clearly not a good spot.

Edit: At first I was surprised to obtain only 44 hands out of 50k+ hands at NL25 in my database. I guess I'm mostly folding or 4-betting in those spots.

Last edited by uberkuber; 09-22-2014 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Added thoughts

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09-22-2014 , 12:41 AM

uberkuber

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,032

Quote:

Originally Posted by There_There

I think this a great question fwiw. I flat 3 bet and x/c flop and proceed to get valuetowned by AA & KK on later streets. It's a good strat.

Or you 4-bet/call like I did and get owned by KK+.

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09-22-2014 , 05:08 AM

#10

qwertz1

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,243

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyAndy27s

With a standard RFI opening range in UTG, we have no need to defend QQ facing a 3b OOP imo.

What? QQ is top 1.5% hand, dunno whats a standart UTG opening range is in your eyes, but QQ is probably way to high up in our range to fold..

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09-22-2014 , 07:28 AM

#11

CrazyAndy27s

adept

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 790

It's better to stack off AKs than it is QQ here, AKo even. We can assume they stack KK+ and some air at best, the last time I saw a reg jam AK or QQ v EP was never

We won't play it correctly OOP if we call it as most player's range are still narrow and their worst bluffs are Axs types which still have ok equity on us.

We can't 4bet bluff it either as we don't block anything. So yeah I just fold QQ here

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09-23-2014 , 04:50 PM

#12

qwertz1

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,243

Not saying you should never fold this, but readless its pretty tight.

And also you said, "With a standard RFI opening range in UTG, we have no need to defend QQ facing a 3b OOP imo.", wich suggests that you make the decision based on our range, wich would then make folding pretty terrible I assume.

I would flat readless...

Also if Villan always has KK+ and always stacks off on Qxx, Im pretty sure that makes us enough money to flat..

Last edited by qwertz1; 09-23-2014 at 04:55 PM.

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09-23-2014 , 09:07 PM

#13

CrazyAndy27s

adept

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 790

Fair enough, although on my ranges here I don't need to flat QQ as I'm prone to more of a 4bet/ fold approach as a default, so I naturally go for blockers and nutted value rather than worrying about calling QQ here (I know, my ranges are weird :P)

If they 3bet quite small then obviously I'd begin to consider flatting instead with hands such as this, AK and maybe JJ AQs etc

I can see your point on the setmining front, although they don't always stack it and there's alot of times we xc xf when he double barrells that we need to consider.

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