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Old 06-15-2008, 06:42 AM   #256
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Haha, I'm definitely not Good in any way but...

9-tabling? Might the fact of how many tables you play become a limitation here? It's easy to see how to get the PTBB/100 up, but if you need to drop the number of tables for it, $/hr may even decrease, so keep that in mind.

In any case you definitely need to loosen up from late position (I'm like 20/16 OTB and I thought I'm nitty... I would get it even higher, like 25/20 at least, if I wasn't multitabling on the limit of my attentiveness, while UTG I'm 8/8 almost like you), get your attempt to steal up to at least 25%, that should be manageable even on many tables. As it is you're just not positionally aware enough.

I see you limp small pocket pairs in EP? I would say raise. It's too easy to catch on to what you're doing, and fold to your set. People who are paying off to your set as it is, will also pay off (and perhaps even better because the pot is bigger) to it when you raise your 22-66 preflop. While some of the people who are figuring out your low PP setmining as it is might pay you off a bit more when you start raising them instead.

Be more bold postflop. W$SD of 61% indicates you might be sometimes folding when you're ahead. You might want to get in more cbets as well.

In short, be more bold overall.

At least such are the thoughts of a n00b like me
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:10 AM   #257
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
Haha, I'm definitely not Good in any way but...

9-tabling? Might the fact of how many tables you play become a limitation here? It's easy to see how to get the PTBB/100 up, but if you need to drop the number of tables for it, $/hr may even decrease, so keep that in mind.

In any case you definitely need to loosen up from late position (I'm like 20/16 OTB and I thought I'm nitty... I would get it even higher, like 25/20 at least, if I wasn't multitabling on the limit of my attentiveness, while UTG I'm 8/8 almost like you), get your attempt to steal up to at least 25%, that should be manageable even on many tables. As it is you're just not positionally aware enough.

I see you limp small pocket pairs in EP? I would say raise. It's too easy to catch on to what you're doing, and fold to your set. People who are paying off to your set as it is, will also pay off (and perhaps even better because the pot is bigger) to it when you raise your 22-66 preflop. While some of the people who are figuring out your low PP setmining as it is might pay you off a bit more when you start raising them instead.

Be more bold postflop. W$SD of 61% indicates you might be sometimes folding when you're ahead. You might want to get in more cbets as well.

In short, be more bold overall.

At least such are the thoughts of a n00b like me
Not sure if this was in response to me.
9-tabling - No I usually play between 16-22 tables at a time.
Not sure where u get the limping from EP - tend to open for raises but I cold call alot of my pairs outside of kk/aa - which I could be 3-betting.
I am concerned about W$SD being 60% but doesnt that mean could mean I am not value raising well enough - I think you will find alot of my action goes in on the flop and turn..and when it reaches the river I dont always extract the most value except on the top of my range - this can lead me to be happy to c/c or see the showdown. It might also be a function of the level I play at and the fact that I am willing to price the loose passive players into calling...ah its hard to tell.
The c-betting and double barrelling which might be why I am not winning enough money without showdown - well that is a good point - it prolly means I need to getting better postflop which is hard to do while playing 16-22 tables. But I find that not c-betting air has definite advantages in multitabling because i dont have to spend too much energy defending marginal situations.
I would like someone to help with defining more closly HUD stats I should be exploiting in late position and with c-bets but getting that info is like pulling teeth from people.
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Old 06-15-2008, 08:46 AM   #258
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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No I usually play between 16-22 tables at a time.
Oh. Simple calculation said you go at about 600 hands per hour, I usually get about that when 9-tabling, that's where I took it from. Probably some quirk in the stats then.

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Not sure where u get the limping from EP
From your UTG stats being 8/6. You can't cold-call UTG, because you're the first to act, so that's the position I automatically chose to check for this. UTG+1 has the same thing to a lesser extent. Now that I rechecked it, your UTG+2 and UTG+3 stats are legit, so I have no idea what's going on. I just assumed if you open limp a fourth of your UTG range, it's the same for the whole EP. Small pocket pairs was the obvious assumption. I wonder what on earth makes the UTG stand out? What are you open limping UTG and UTG+1 that you are not open limping UTG+2 and UTG+3?

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But I find that not c-betting air has definite advantages in multitabling because i dont have to spend too much energy defending marginal situations
Yes, I sometimes have to do this even 9-tabling, so I can't imagine how it could be possible keeping up optimal style for one table while megamultitabling, you need an almost automatic strategy for that. You definitely need to cut down on the number of tables if you want to improve and move up. For 16-22 tabling at your current limits, your stats are probably quite optimal. A winrate of 6-8ptBB while 16-22 tabling would be pretty darn spectacular. So you'll have to split your time between studying in order to move up, and doing what you do now in order to make $$$ and build your roll for moving up.

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I would like someone to help with defining more closly HUD stats I should be exploiting in late position and with c-bets but getting that info is like pulling teeth from people.
Just use Folds to Continuation Bet in your HUD, fairly straightforward at the micros as far as I can tell. If a high fold to continuation bet, high VPIP and low PFR, has limped in front of you, you can open up considerably from late position, because they will likely call your preflop raise and then fold to your cbet.

Last edited by Vantek; 06-15-2008 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 06-15-2008, 04:47 PM   #259
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Your far to much of a nit digger, no offense.


Your Att to steal should be double what it is now, your losing on loads of money by being so tight from LP.

Again you are losing alot in non-showdown pots. If someone limps in front of you instead of of limping alot with small PP's or SC's you should be raising and c-betting nearly every flop if it's heads up.

I'd start 3betting more aswell, if your only 3betting K' and A's people will eventually realise. You'll get through NL 50 fine, but as you move up you will struggle as people will know you have the nuts. Depending on vilans but I'd 3bet nearly all P's on the BTN. I'd definitly be 3betting T's+ in any position. IF your just calling preflop, then c/f when you dont hit your set thats throwing alot of money down the toliet and one of the reasons your losing in non showdown pots.

Vantek summed it up in last last post, you have to decide which is more important, moving up, improving winrate or improving your game.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:54 PM   #260
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Your far to much of a nit digger, no offense.Pretty hard to offend me


Your Att to steal should be double what it is now, your losing on loads of money by being so tight from LP.

Again you are losing alot in non-showdown pots. If someone limps in front of you instead of of limping alot with small PP's or SC's you should be raising and c-betting nearly every flop if it's heads up.
I am not sure that stats is just that - because I actually dont limp that much what I think the stat must include ... is that a call raisers in behind with a wide range of cards if I have position on the opener. Which if I stop doing and 3 bet a wider range might get my VPIP/PFR up from 10/7 to 12/9 range.

I'd start 3betting more aswell, if your only 3betting K' and A's people will eventually realise.Well its not actually that bad but I tend to only K's And A's all positions barring the HIjack C/O and button. Those 3 positions I tend to open up my 3 betting range but again its probably tighter than most good players. You'll get through NL 50 fine, but as you move up you will struggle as people will know you have the nuts. Depending on vilans but I'd 3bet nearly all P's on the BTN. I felt that this might be true but dont wont to make too a dramatic changeI'd definitly be 3betting T's+ in any position. IF your just calling preflop, then c/f when you dont hit your set Well its not just fit or fold but it would be accurate that I recognise this as a leak but its important to understand at what point in the hand when I am turning my hand into a bluff and when I am betting the best hand and/or getting his marginally better hands to fold. Being able to recognise this distinction I need to work on.thats throwing alot of money down the toliet and one of the reasons your losing in non showdown pots.

Vantek summed it up in last last post, you have to decide which is more important, moving up, improving winrate or improving your game. All of these are important but that sample range in the graph is about half of my bankroll build there is about the same before that and its been pretty much 60 buyin uninterrupted upswing so I am looking to adjust gradually without trying to radically overhaul too many things at once.

Vantek - I have a pretty good sample size of most of the reg/semi/reg players at 50NL - but playing 16-22 tables makes HUD hard to manage in terms of it begins to crowd the screen. I currently keep the VPIP/PFR/Cbet/FCbet/Hand No. - I might have to include fold to steals to get my LP stats up.
So I am not sure if it is a function of playing the amount of tables I do or that I am too nittish. I guess I need to find some solid LP techniques combined against suitable villians as well as open my 3 bet with position range.
Thank you Ted and Van - If you think of anything else feel free to PM me with any thoughts you have or post it here
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:34 PM   #261
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

I agree with adjusting gradually and if I was you I would write down a list of the things you feel you could imrpove and just take them 1 at a time to try and imrpove slowly.
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Old 06-16-2008, 08:30 AM   #262
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

I'd still like to know what makes your UTG stats 8/6 :P

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playing 16-22 tables makes HUD hard to manage in terms of it begins to crowd the screen.
Have you tried stacking your tables? I hear it's optimal for megamultitabling and I can imagine why.

Quote:
I might have to include fold to steals to get my LP stats up.
That's not even necessary, I don't use it, it takes a big sample size to determine it - you can assume it fairly well from VPIP, PFR, overall aggression, attempt to steal and fold to continuation bet. A typical tighty-passive will fold a lot to steals. Someone who is very loose will obviously not. Someone who folds a lot to cbets, will likely fold a lot to steals and even if he won't, all the better for you, because he will likely fold to your cbet instead, having donated extra money. Someone who attempts to steal a lot himself however, will likely understand if you attempt to steal.

Quote:
All of these are important but that sample range in the graph is about half of my bankroll build there is about the same before that and its been pretty much 60 buyin uninterrupted upswing so I am looking to adjust gradually without trying to radically overhaul too many things at once.
Sounds good luck!
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:33 PM   #263
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

hi.
Ive been playing NL100 for the last half year but hit a big down recently so I started over at NL50 again 4 days ago.
this is a small sample but my NL100 stats looked similar.
I still feel unlucky, in fact Im down with KK..

can you guys give me any advice based on my stats?




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Old 06-18-2008, 12:51 AM   #264
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Obviously I suck at the internets/computers but I got the images up even if its ugly.

Was wondering if anyone saw anything specific?

The main thing I saw my self is my WTSD% is at 20% which is not near the 25% that is stated as ideal in the first post.

Why is this am I folding too much before showdown? Or other reasons?

I generally play get it in or or out on earlier streets but I want to see what people think about that number being so low..

I also think there is an odd gap between my vpip and pfr. This seems to be coming from huge gaps in these numbers out of the blinds is this a potential leak? And how would I address it?

Thanks and sorry for the messiness

Last edited by Ponder; 06-18-2008 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:59 AM   #265
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by wems View Post
im not very good with this mert, but
your calling too much int he small bilnd... Also you should never be limping from UTG
and you could also probably loosen up in the high jack some more, since that is late position... you have a huge jump from your MP vpip/pfr compared to your lp vpip/pfr
Where did you get the never limping from UTG?
I know of really good players limping with 22-99
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Old 06-18-2008, 04:58 AM   #266
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Don't compare televised tournament late stages or high stakes to online beginners. For the latter, never limping first in is the standard you shouldn't really deviate from without a good reason.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:04 AM   #267
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Just wondering if you people can give any comments on my stats. I'm playing poker for about 3 months now, starting at 2NL, moving up to 5NL and after 10k hands there now at 10NL (planning on moving to 25NL once my roll is good enough for that...).

Are there any really noticable things I might have missed? I usually 4-table.

Overall:


By position:
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:07 AM   #268
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by Momsbarbershop View Post
Where did you get the never limping from UTG?
I know of really good players limping with 22-99
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Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
Don't compare televised tournament late stages or high stakes to online beginners. For the latter, never limping first in is the standard you shouldn't really deviate from without a good reason.
You can play it both ways. There are much more important things to worry about imo. Like your post flop play.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:19 AM   #269
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by Momsbarbershop View Post
Where did you get the never limping from UTG?
I know of really good players limping with 22-99
a) I think 22 is a flea ridden dog of a hand in cash games
b) Limp/called flopped sets are much harder to stack with than if you either are the preflop raiser or have position or both.
c)Against aware opponents your cards become face up in effect so unless you are gonna rep sets successfully some of time it can be a leak
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Old 06-18-2008, 12:08 PM   #270
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

I'd STILL like to know what makes your UTG stats 8/6, Digger :P

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You can play it both ways. There are much more important things to worry about imo. Like your post flop play.
Which was kind of my point. Perhaps you can limp, but you must be damn good to do it. If you are playing the micro stakes, you are not damn good. Raising makes poker easy. Just use the industry standard preflop, and concentrate on improving your postflop. The industry standard preflop is almost never limping.

Last edited by Vantek; 06-18-2008 at 12:14 PM.
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