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Old 06-07-2008, 03:28 PM   #241
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Jinmoon pretty much hit the nail on the head with his reply but here's my thoughts anyway.


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Originally Posted by FL800 View Post
Is this indicative of any specific leaks?

Your problay folding to often or not being very agressive and semi/bluffing very little. Double barreling isnt done very often. For example you have AK and you raise preflop miss the flop, c-bet I'd say your nearly always c/f the turn.


[QUOTE=FL800;4501027]
Is it always going to be in the negative?

It will be rare to find someone who play FR to have a large profit from non-showdown pots. 6max would be different though.


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Originally Posted by FL800 View Post
How do various styles affect this statistic?
I am not actually 100% sure of this, but at a guess I'd say the tighter you are the higher your won money without Sd should be as people will repect you for having a hand more often.

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Am I concerning myself too much with it?
Over 13k hands I am only up a buy-in according to my graph so it's not something I'd be worrying to much over. But one thing that defenitly struck me with Diggers graph was that he was down 6buy-ins in just 6k hands. While it is a very small sample it's just something I'd keep and eye on.

As you move up you will be easy to exploit and people will realise you only bet when you have a hand.
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:09 AM   #242
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Teddie - My sklansky dollars vs won at showdown is widening now after 20k hands and whilst my won without showdown is flatting it is still now 20 buyins

Now I am up 16 buyins at 4bb so its not like i am losing money but I obv have some pretty major leaks that might get me to 6-8bb that can be easily rectified with some plugging.
Do you think that if i can lose less money without showdown then I will close the gap between the green line and the blue line?
Does it mean I am folding too much my blinds or not raising enough when in front? So I might be too comfortable putting them on hands and know I am in front and see the river when I should be Raising his range??
Or could it be in the 3bet calling too much and not 4betting enough or folding?calling in 3 bet pots to c-bets instead of raising?
I know its my passivity somewhere but hard to get a handle of which stats to look at and where to apply it - I am relatively new at PT bear that in mind
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:20 AM   #243
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggertheDog View Post
Teddie - My sklansky dollars vs won at showdown is widening now after 20k hands and whilst my won without showdown is flatting it is still now 20 buyins

Now I am up 16 buyins at 4bb so its not like i am losing money but I obv have some pretty major leaks that might get me to 6-8bb that can be easily rectified with some plugging.
Do you think that if i can lose less money without showdown then I will close the gap between the green line and the blue line?
Does it mean I am folding too much my blinds or not raising enough when in front? So I might be too comfortable putting them on hands and know I am in front and see the river when I should be Raising his range??
Or could it be in the 3bet calling too much and not 4betting enough or folding?calling in 3 bet pots to c-bets instead of raising?
I know its my passivity somewhere but hard to get a handle of which stats to look at and where to apply it - I am relatively new at PT bear that in mind


Post up your agression factor by street and your position stats. It will help with seeing where you could be going wrong.
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Old 06-09-2008, 12:25 AM   #244
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

My turn to do one of these then. I've been playing FR NL for a while now and feel like I've gotten used to ut and pretty much established I'm a winning player. Due to RL expenses I'm doing regular cashouts so I haven't been able to build my roll as much as I'd like, but this time I'm trying to move up to NL50 permanently so I thought a stat checkup could be in order.

Starting with the graph of all my NL25 FR play at Full Tilt this year:



I started out playing a bit too weak/tight, but at around hand 60k I moved to stars for some NL10 play and at the same time I changed my game a bit to become more aggressive in position, raising more limpers and so on. When I came back to FT I kept that up and though I'm most likely running a bit hot I'd like to think that changing up my play is what increased my winrate.

Stats from my short stay at Stars (where I incidently am back yet again to rebuild at NL10):



And here are the stats and position numbers from my play at Full Tilt:





Leaks that I suspect I have are probably the standard weak/tight nit ones. I give up pretty easy if my cbets are called or raised, tend to fold rather than call down when I'm unsure where I'm at and so on. Any other obvious leaks that stand out? Are any of my numbers way off?

All play above is 16-tabling btw and I feel that the number of tables helps me to avoid tilt alot which is obviously great. I also try to table select as much as possible and switch tables when they dry up. Having 40+ different HH files after a longer session is not uncommon these days.

So, do you guys think I can have a shot at NL50 or should I fine tune some more before moving up? Any input is much appreciated!
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:20 AM   #245
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie View Post
Post up your agression factor by street and your position stats. It will help with seeing where you could be going wrong.

Not sure if that is the report you wanted but there u go teddie
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:46 PM   #246
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Go to the postions tab and post up and picture of that aswell.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:02 PM   #247
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

oh boy, so I hope im not including too much information here.
but this is 25nl FR 4tables...
only 12khands, i kniow its small but is this an okay sample size to help fix leaks and what not?
One thing I think is a leak is that I have trouble with higher PP, JJ-QQ... and I dont think I fold them enough to sets and two pair and KK+

also any tips on adding more tables? i currently have 20BI for 50nl but would like to be beating 25nl playing 8+tbles, although I may just jump up to 50nl and play 4tbles then add more at 50nl havent decided... any advice is appreciated








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Old 06-12-2008, 12:27 AM   #248
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Hey guys I have just finished my first 15k hands for June and have been getting a little cold decked. Beginning to question my game a bit so I was hoping someone could analyze my stats and give me some feedback on what I need to iimprove on. For one thing I am somehow negative overall with all the straights I have had Some of this is tilt but still, <3 variance I hope..








Thanks for taking a look

Edit: Next time I will resize lol
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:50 PM   #249
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

im not very good with this mert, but
your calling too much int he small bilnd... Also you should never be limping from UTG
and you could also probably loosen up in the high jack some more, since that is late position... you have a huge jump from your MP vpip/pfr compared to your lp vpip/pfr
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:20 PM   #250
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Hey wems,

You are positionally aware, but I would be even moreso. For example your PFR is 13 UTG and 17 OTB. I'm not crushing the games, but I'm more like 6/5 UTG and 27/22 OTB. If you're raising 13% of your range UTG, I think that's just too much. I'm raising my Pocket Pairs, AQo+, and AJs+, and some people think even that is too much.

On the button, you should be playing your opponents much more than your cards. I'm not saying to raise with complete trash, but the strength of your cards is just something to fall back on, not something which you should base your raise on.

And I would recommend adding more tables rather than moving up. It's not nearly as hard as moving up, doesn't effect variance, and if you're going to multitable eventually, it's much better to learn at lower limits. It's an awesome way to put in volume. I went from 4 to 16 at NL25, and I couldn't be happier. Not to say that I ALWAYS play 16 tables now, but I'm comfortable doing so.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:35 PM   #251
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by hackers238 View Post
Hey wems,

You are positionally aware, but I would be even moreso. For example your PFR is 13 UTG and 17 OTB. I'm not crushing the games, but I'm more like 6/5 UTG and 27/22 OTB. If you're raising 13% of your range UTG, I think that's just too much. I'm raising my Pocket Pairs, AQo+, and AJs+, and some people think even that is too much.

On the button, you should be playing your opponents much more than your cards. I'm not saying to raise with complete trash, but the strength of your cards is just something to fall back on, not something which you should base your raise on.

And I would recommend adding more tables rather than moving up. It's not nearly as hard as moving up, doesn't effect variance, and if you're going to multitable eventually, it's much better to learn at lower limits. It's an awesome way to put in volume. I went from 4 to 16 at NL25, and I couldn't be happier. Not to say that I ALWAYS play 16 tables now, but I'm comfortable doing so.
I appreciate the reply.
i jsut recently switched to FR and ive always had spew/tilt probs... so ive been trying to nit up, and i have greatly.

but do you think I could be 3betting fairly light from the button? and also im guessing if its folded to me I can start open raising ATC from the high jack and cutoff?
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Old 06-12-2008, 10:48 PM   #252
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Appreciate your reply wems. MP seems to be problematic for me, I was playing alot of 6 max recently where MP is almost inexistant and have really lost my idea of how to play these 2 positions. I have found loosening up my game here with lots of steals hasn't been profitable as the button and CO often come into the pot and I am now playing OOP and basically have to hit the flop. As for limping UTG it is something I never do anymore, the small difference in vpip is from when I began this sample size and was doing some experimenting. 95% of the time my gameplan is raising 4bb+1 per limper from any position.

Also I saw in your last post that you have spew/tilt probs..I can relate lol. I've played with you a few times in the FR games wouldn't be surprised if you saw me donk off a stack. I swear there is no worse feeling then what comes after you 3 barrel someone for no reason without even thinking with complete air after just losing to a 2-3 outer, then realizing what you just did. I have come to name this thoughtless, tilt induced, momentarily insane 3 barrel phenomenon as 'matusowing'.

Another question I have is about my button play. As you can see my VPIP goes from 23 to 34 from CO to button and I think I may be playing too loose, even for the button. I choose my spots however any suited/non suited connectors paint cards and pairs I am usually raising with 0-2 limpers (with regard to stack sizes of course..I am not raising short stacks with 56o for example). However I am starting to think it may be optimal to play my button at high 20s VPIP. What do you guys think? However I'm going to go over my hands and see exactly how many of my losses have been from spewing as I have been known to fire the occasional terrible 2nd/3rd barrel..so it may turn out my button is more profitable then CO in reality (had I not mindlessly spewed!!!)

Last edited by mert420; 06-12-2008 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:53 AM   #253
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****











Hi, if anyone could analyse my stats and graphs, thanks!
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:32 AM   #254
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

I'm really curious now about the non-showdown line being in the minus, and wether it's indicative of a leak.

Doesn't it almost entirely depend on the tendencies of your opponents instead?

I've thought about it, and it seems to me that against calling stations (which is from whom most of your money comes from at 5NL and 10NL), the optimal strategy will result in the non-showdown line being far in the minus and the showdown line skyrocketing instead. Whereas against opponents that can lay down their hands (much rarer at the lower stakes and more common at higher stakes), you can grow the non-showdown line by bluffing them off their hands.

I mean imagine playing against people who will almost never fold to pot-sized bets when they have a little something. Essentially you will play your hand face up against them: bet hard three streets whenever you have a hand, and give up when you don't. When you don't have anything, the best thing to do is give up, because you can't get them to fold worse. When you have a good hand, the best thing to do is to bet ridiculous amounts for value, because they will call with worse. This means in non-showdown pots, you never win much, because when you don't go to showdown, that means you don't have anything, and you are just giving up on the pot. Whereas when you do go to showdown, you likely have been value betting the whole way and now get paid off ridiculously. The non-showdown winnings line will be in the negative because mostly it will consist of hands where you gave up after putting something into the pot. While the showdown winnings line is actually skyrocketing from the massive pots pumped full of pure value, even if it doesn't look that that impressive on the graph. If you reduce the amount of money lost in the non-showdown pots by being more timid, you lose a proportinal amount from the showdowon pots. You cannot reduce the amount of money lost in the non-showdown pots by being more aggressive with weaker holdings, because you can't get your opponents to fold: if you have indeed been too timid thus far, you will instead increase your showdown line even more, because you are getting paid on the hands you weren't getting paid on before; if you have been aggressive enough, you will instead lose from the showdown pots by losing more whenever your opponent has the better hand, without altering the non-showdown line that much.

And now in contrast imagine people that fold everything but the nuts. If you see showdown, that means you just lost because your opponent has the nuts. On the other hand, you take down every single pot that they don't have the nuts. Now your showdown winnings will be in the minus, whereas non-showdown winnings are going to skyrocket.

It's obviously a simplification, but honestly I feel at the microstakes most of your profit comes from pretty much playing your hand face up against calling stations, betting hard on your good hands and giving up with your bad ones. If you are actually good enough to bluff at the right spots and decieve a thinking opponent etc, you shouldn't be playing at the bottom micros. At the higher limits however, people are much more capable of folding worse, so there's a much lower potential of making $$$ with showdown - and much higher one without.

In short, as long as your game isn't downright dreadful, I don't feel the difference between the showdown line and the non-showdown line is indicative of a leak or even your playstyle - it is instead indicative of the playstyle of your average opponent.

Last edited by Vantek; 06-13-2008 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:53 PM   #255
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****




Ok please some input from Good PT analysts thanks

As you can see I am not doing badly but I want to somehow get to 6-8bb per 100
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