Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazenger
Is there any place where it is possible to see several winning players stats? (at least 10) (FRNLHM mid/high stake). TY for the tips!
as far as I know, there is no such place. But if you have specific questions, I'm happy to try to answer them. I have seen the stats for a lot of mid to high stakes players and I can tell you a lot of things about them. But the most important thing to tell you about them is that they look very similar to the stats of winning micro and small stakes grinders.
Good play leads to good stats at all levels.
The details of what constitutes good play are a bit different at all levels. For example, the first time I looked at the stats of a mid stakes grinder, I filtered for "all in preflop = true," and saw that his range to get all in preflop fairly routinely was TT+ and AQ, and that he was losing about 3bb/hand when he shipped the bottom of his range.
Now, if a player at NL $10 shows up with any significant number of stack offs with TT in his database, I am going to tell him it is a leak. But for the guy whose DB I was in, -3bb/hand with AQ and TT was what we called "a reasonable advertising budget," that was necessary to establish to the field of solid opponents that his value range was as light as TT and AQ.
So, in some respects, what constitutes good stats varies from level to level. But it doesn't really vary at the level of resolution we are looking at in this thread. Good TAg's stats-- at all levels -- all look about the same on the position report page and on the overall report page. they all steal about the same, get to showdown within narrow parameters, and win at showdown within narrow parameters.
The same for good LAgs.
One thing I have noticed recently are that there are really two types of post flop players. The first type is what I call the quantity player, and the second is what I call the quality player. here's the difference:
The excellent quantity player has ridiculously aggro stats on the flop. He is often a 5-7% aggression factor, and he usually has a flop c-bet stat in the high 70s to low 80s. His win rate on the flop is very low--usually in the neighborhood of 100bb/100 hands, and his win rate after the flop (but before showdown) is usually negative at all stages.
This type of player is basically making money off the volume of his bets. He c-bets every reasonable opportunity on the flop and shuts down unless he has a monster he will take to showdown. He has an absurdly low turn c-bet %; something in the 30s is typical. His won money at showdown is often at, or just barely below, 50%
The other type of player I call the quantity player. This player picks his spots very carefully. His stats tend to show low betting frequencies--so he maybe bets the flop 55-60% of the time, but then he bets the turn 45-55% of the time. Being careful with his c-bets makes his flop win rate significantly higher than the quality player--so for these players I see win rates on the flop of about 300 or 400bb/100 hands. He makes his money after the flop exploiting players who will float the flop and then fold to a turn double. He makes his money on the few quality hands he has. Consequently, he usually wins a higher percentage of his showdowns than the average "quantity" player.
It used to be that the quality player was a TAg, and the quantity player was a LAg. But these days, i see both LAgs and TAgs showing up post flop as both quantity and quality players. The thing that correlates most with which of these post flop styles you are playing is not whether your pre flop stats are LAg or TAg, but how many tables you play (mass multi-tablers tend to be quantity players, and people playing fewer tables tend to be quality players.
I don't see any correlation between overall win rate and preflop stats or whether a person plays quality or quantity post flop. I have seen excellent win rates from all four possible permutations:
Quality TAg
Quality LAg
Quantity TAg
Quantity LAg
just to clarify the permutations.
I've recently been considering rewriting the OP of this thread to modernize it, but I am loathe to re-write history and just erase the OP like that. So I dunno what, if anything, I am going to do.
Anyway, if you have questions, I'll answer them as best I can.