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Micro Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to .25/.50 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 06-28-2012, 12:33 PM   #1
centurion
 
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NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    MP1: $1.95 (39 bb)
    MP2: $4.75 (95 bb)
    MP3: $5.70 (114 bb)
    CO: $2 (40 bb)
    BTN: $3.81 (76.2 bb)
    SB: $5.21 (104.2 bb)
    Hero (BB): $6.34 (126.8 bb)
    UTG+2: $5 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with J 3
    UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, 3 folds, BTN calls $0.05, SB completes, Hero checks

    Flop: ($0.20) 6 7 3 (4 players)
    SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets $0.10, BTN calls $0.10, SB folds, Hero calls $0.10

    Turn: ($0.50) 2 (3 players)
    Hero checks, MP1 bets $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

    River: ($1.10) 2 (3 players)
    Hero bets $0.66, MP1 folds, BTN calls $0.66

    Spoiler:
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    Old 06-28-2012, 12:48 PM   #2
    centurion
     
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    On the river I would bet no less than 1/2 PSB, up to PSB.

    Flop is good, with 11 outs, you are 3.2:1 against, you're getting 4:1 on your call. You're printing monies with this call.

    Turn is same odds for the draw (3.2:1), and pot odds are 4.5:1. Even better than before!

    Bet sizing on river is villain dependent and any history I have with that villain is definitely coming in to play here. Definitely a bet, though. Otherwise Hero put all the chips in while behind and got no more chips in when ahead.
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    Old 06-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #3
    old hand
     
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    ^^ Don´t we have 14 or 9 outs (three J for best 2 pair 95% of the time)

    Actually I´m leading flop with fd and bottom pair in a limped pot
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    Old 06-28-2012, 04:27 PM   #4
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    Its really difficult to say the sizing is correct without stats, but it feels like not a bad size since it's going to be pretty obvious you're representing the FD and it was a limped pot. The funny thing about sizing is that even if your sure of his cards you never know if it's too much until the guy folds. I think the finer points of sizing are more of an educated guess then anything else, but I tend to bet lower over betting higher. Is losing .10 or .20 when you bet lower then you could've on this hand worth the risk of losing the .66 that he did call? Who knows...Maybe as I get better I can hit the perfect zone for sizing more often, but I'd say that's a good bet, and hey, he called right?
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    Old 06-28-2012, 05:14 PM   #5
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oxzy View Post
    ^^ Don´t we have 14 or 9 outs (three J for best 2 pair 95% of the time)

    Actually I´m leading flop with fd and bottom pair in a limped pot
    You're probably right. I was counting the spades and trips as solid draws, but the 3 Jacks are probably good, too.
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    Old 06-28-2012, 05:36 PM   #6
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    On the river I would bet no less than 1/2 PSB, up to PSB.

    Flop is good, with 11 outs, you are 3.2:1 against, you're getting 4:1 on your call. You're printing monies with this call.

    Turn is same odds for the draw (3.2:1), and pot odds are 4.5:1. Even better than before!

    Bet sizing on river is villain dependent and any history I have with that villain is definitely coming in to play here. Definitely a bet, though. Otherwise Hero put all the chips in while behind and got no more chips in when ahead.
    Don't we have to be a little worried here that we're not drawing to the best hand?
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    Old 06-29-2012, 12:09 AM   #7
    centurion
     
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    What? No. I mean... worry about what you want to, but I don't find it productive, personally.

    Of course it happens sometimes, but I'm not living in fear of getting coolered.

    Bottom line is if you're worried about getting coolered here, then fold on the flop. There are some monies to be made vs. most fish on this chase, but it is by no means essential to a winning strategy. It's not like we flopped the draw and it came runner runner and now there's a 4 flush on board.
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    Old 06-29-2012, 07:12 AM   #8
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    What? No. I mean... worry about what you want to, but I don't find it productive, personally.

    Of course it happens sometimes, but I'm not living in fear of getting coolered.

    Bottom line is if you're worried about getting coolered here, then fold on the flop. There are some monies to be made vs. most fish on this chase, but it is by no means essential to a winning strategy. It's not like we flopped the draw and it came runner runner and now there's a 4 flush on board.
    I'm just saying the math isn't as clear as you make it out to be, since there are times we are losing money (and possibly a lot of it) when the draw comes.
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    Old 06-29-2012, 11:22 AM   #9
    centurion
     
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    Re: NL5 pair and flush draw line check, correct river sizing?

    Don't blame the math just 'cause I'm a tarded monkey!

    Hero is calculating equity against Villain's whole range, right? Of course Villain has the top of that range sometimes. I just shrug it off and move on.

    If you're worried about that kind of thing, fold the flop when you're OOP. Honestly, you're walking away from a thin value line, which wont matter too much to your ultimate winrate. Reverse implied odds is going to eat up most of the action when the flush hits, anyway.
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