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NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands

08-28-2014 , 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilZ89
My bad; I didn't account the fish to bet in the pot, so sizing is good like it is now. Play looks good imo as I look at it now. Because of the following reasons:

1. It makes the hand easier to play. Any turn (besides a T) is bad for your hand.
2. You can fold out the reg and might play HU with the fish
3. Regs will be scared facing this raise with TT+ after this strenght and probably folds them out.
4. Pair + draws might call
5. When getting raised, you're done without any doubt!
1. I agree... Turn cards i push on 567? 2--> yes, 3--> yes, 4--> no!, 5--> yes, 6--> yes, 7--> yes, 8--> unsure!, 9--> no, T+ --> yes... --> so i push 10/13 turns

2. absolutely

3. i agree

4. nice, yeah.

5. i like 5. very very much
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 08:39 AM
Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 2567242
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP2: $40.00 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 5, AF: 2,9, Hands: 15468
CO: $38.83 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 11, 3B: 4, AF: 3,7, Hands: 38211
BTN: $61.12 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 5, AF: 1,9, Hands: 14471
Hero (SB): $50.15 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2,9, Hands: 942342
BB: $78.11 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 1,9, Hands: 5644, FtCB 54, BvM: 50, WTSD: 28
UTG: $50.75 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 2,3, Hands: 13610
UTG+1: $61.67 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 2,9, Hands: 5584
MP1: $18.09 - VPIP: 48, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 42

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with T K
6 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.00) 8 K K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BB calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.75, Hero calls $4.75

River: ($15.50) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10.50

Do you call here?
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 08:54 AM
I call, because its SB vs BB and we dont look like a Kx-hand or a flush, so his bluffing range is wide here..
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo_medici
I call, because its SB vs BB and we dont look like a Kx-hand or a flush, so his bluffing range is wide here..
Just like that
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 09:04 AM
surely you checked the river to induce some spew?
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed
surely you checked the river to induce some spew?
I dont see a value bet here, so i decided to check..
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 10:00 AM
i call. we have to be good 40%, iguess we r good apr. 50%. he could value bet any k, he could have floated and barrel of some 9Tcc 76cc. he could turn ah2x into a bluff just name a few bluffing combos and there is spew in his range too bvb.
greets
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 11:53 AM
Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 2567331
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP2: $40.00 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 5, AF: 2,9, Hands: 15511
CO: $38.83 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 11, 3B: 4, AF: 3,7, Hands: 38211
BTN: $61.12 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 5, AF: 1,9, Hands: 14471
Hero (SB): $50.15 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2,9, Hands: 943685
BB: $78.11 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 1,9, Hands: 5644
UTG: $50.75 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 2,3, Hands: 13610
UTG+1: $61.67 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 2,9, Hands: 5590
MP1: $18.09 - VPIP: 48, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 42

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with T K
6 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.00) 8 K K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BB calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.75, Hero calls $4.75

River: ($15.50) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10.50, Hero raises to $42.40

Villain snap betted the river, so i thought the "Q" doesnt change something.. So i decided to shove here as a bluff.. I think i fold out any flush and KJ.. i look like KQ, KQ, KQ
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 12:28 PM
Seriously is there any river you dont think is a good c/jam?, like you wanna rep everything everytime even when villains ranges are polarized & we can bluffcatch.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 12:31 PM
call me pesimistic but i dont think villains with wtsd28 r folding flushes too often here cause its bvb and u could spew blabla. so i think call is +ev and shipping as a bluff is +ev too. imo calling is better cause u dont push the variance...
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 01:08 PM
What do you think is the cause of your success at these limits?
Do you study poker outside the tables, if so how much time?
What advice would you give to someone looking to move up to 25NL as well?
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerlearnerguy
What do you think is the cause of your success at these limits?
Do you study poker outside the tables, if so how much time?
What advice would you give to someone looking to move up to 25NL as well?
X/Jam every river. Success 100%. Jk ofc.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exothermic
Seriously is there any river you dont think is a good c/jam?, like you wanna rep everything everytime even when villains ranges are polarized & we can bluffcatch.
Yeah, this.

It's quite surprising that you are beating 25nl by bluffing so much. Usually, the key to this stake is thin value betting, not hoping that villain will fold the 2nd nuts by c/r a merged range on the river.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 02:30 PM
Bluffing with the best hand isn't difficult.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exothermic
Seriously is there any river you dont think is a good c/jam?, like you wanna rep everything everytime even when villains ranges are polarized & we can bluffcatch.
I think it looks like you say. No i dont bluff often.. I marked like 100hands this year and this where some of them..

I wanted to post to one topic. But i am interested in your reaction..

I check-raise rivers as a bluff like 1/100. I post some normal hands tomorrow :-)
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filojoes
call me pesimistic but i dont think villains with wtsd28 r folding flushes too often here cause its bvb and u could spew blabla. so i think call is +ev and shipping as a bluff is +ev too. imo calling is better cause u dont push the variance...
I think its close, too. I posted the hands to get some opinions, not to be cool, because i am checkraising so often..

And i understand that for most of the players the scenario bluff catching is +EV vs. turning a very strong hand into a bluff feels like spew.

I learned this here. Thank you for this perspective.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerlearnerguy
What do you think is the cause of your success at these limits?
Do you study poker outside the tables, if so how much time?
What advice would you give to someone looking to move up to 25NL as well?
I "study" poker like 1-2hours a day.. making a lot of database analysis, discuss hands in skype groups and discussing hands here is very very interesting..

Another very good advise is: You have to respect everybody´s line and thoughts and try to learn from everybody. If somebody takes a line you dont like, ask why, think about it and forgot to try always be right.

I so often hear: "why he called here, he is so bad" "I get suckout again" "how he can bet here, he understands nothing" Try to get the focus: "What you can you make better in hands and understand lines, look for reasons in stats of the villain"

With one word: "Listen" :-)

I think especially on NL25 first you have to extract value, value, value. Second: Players are very tight. Be aggressive. Its a lot of dead money here.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babarberousse
Yeah, this.

It's quite surprising that you are beating 25nl by bluffing so much. Usually, the key to this stake is thin value betting, not hoping that villain will fold the 2nd nuts by c/r a merged range on the river.
90% i agree. As i said, it looks like i am very spewy. I am not. I will posts some "normal" hands in the next days..

I dont want to show that you beat nl25 by bluffing crazy. I am really sorry if this happened. Its like you said

Getting value from bad players is absolutely the key point on NL25.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-28-2014 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NL25_Crusher
Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 2567242
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP2: $40.00 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 5, AF: 2,9, Hands: 15468
CO: $38.83 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 11, 3B: 4, AF: 3,7, Hands: 38211
BTN: $61.12 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 5, AF: 1,9, Hands: 14471
Hero (SB): $50.15 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2,9, Hands: 942342
BB: $78.11 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 1,9, Hands: 5644, FtCB 54, BvM: 50, WTSD: 28
UTG: $50.75 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 2,3, Hands: 13610
UTG+1: $61.67 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 2,9, Hands: 5584
MP1: $18.09 - VPIP: 48, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 42

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with T K
6 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.00) 8 K K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BB calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.75, Hero calls $4.75

River: ($15.50) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10.50

Do you call here?
Like lots of others say: way too spewy! Most hands that beat you will call you anyway, especially at the 25NL. You are outleveling yourself in a lot of difficult spots, as I've seen before. You don't get many folds from KJ and flushes, especially not at those limits. Only if you have a read on a player, you go ahead and make a play like this when it really feels good.

Anyway, you posted hands feeds discussion, so that's never a bad thing
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-29-2014 , 03:34 AM
Well nothing worse calls that's for sure. I think worse trips will probably fold even though we look FOS. I don't think he has any showdown value type hands like TT or 89, even AQ might check back here.

Can we fold out better? KJ maybe. We can't realistically rep a flush after checking both turn and river, likewise who ever plays a boat this way? Even with QQ we are going to be leading the river for value I expect.

I think it could work vs a particular tight passive type player who just thinks 'paired board, river raise, flush no good' because they've paid off too many guys this way in the past.
But if we look at our actions, our line is inconsistent with these hands and we should be getting looked up by basically any better hand.

I think these hands are great, please post more. We can learn a lot from more 'normal' hands too - which I guess are often about how thinly we can value bet fish because this is probably the biggest factor in our overall winrate. And those small pot hands - like cbetting the wrong board, taking stabs at orphaned pots etc..
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-29-2014 , 03:39 AM
Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 2567622
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: $48.87 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 8, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 12
MP1: $16.60 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 8, 3B: 2, AF: 3,1, Hands: 143
MP2: $51.25 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 14, 3B: 5, AF: 2,9, Hands: 9581
CO: $55.96 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 12, 3B: 5, AF: 2,8, Hands: 11748, Wtsd: 29, Fold to Flop Cbet 64%, Fold to Turn Cbet 13%
BTN: $51.75 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 2,0, Hands: 5663
SB: $52.99 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 13, 3B: 4, AF: 1,6, Hands: 6057
Hero (BB): $53.25 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2,9, Hands: 943685
UTG: $62.69 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 12, 3B: 3, AF: 1,7, Hands: 1747
UTG+1: $135.56 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 7, AF: 4,1, Hands: 16127

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 5 4
5 folds, CO raises to $1.50, 1 fold, SB calls $1.25, Hero raises to $6.50, CO calls $5, SB calls $5

Flop: ($19.50) 5 Q 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $11.00, CO calls $11, SB folds

Turn: ($41.50) 9 (2 players)

I 3bettet here, cause the initial raiser folds to squeeze 81% and the caller folds to 3bet 55%. I do no often, but i have some suited connectors in my squeezing range.

On the flop i decided to bet, cause the IR folds to Cbet 64%.

Now we get to the turn and i am unsure to bet or not?
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-29-2014 , 03:52 AM
Yikes, check now I think and hope he checks back. We could bet small but if he jams we may be committed here. Just going by stats its fair to say he has at least Qx here which probably isn't folding on this board so jamming now is probably spew. Actually he could have something like JJ or TT but still its not a great spot I don't think.

I don't think cbetting this flop is all that good. I doubt JJ or whatever will fold to a single barrel, we could fold out some broadways,AK that have equity against us. It's 3way aswell. Checking isn't too good either though.

I think this is a good example of why its better to go after people in position. Also, its not a bad hand to call preflop with.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-29-2014 , 04:27 AM
With so much equity OTT I'd probably jam vs lots of opponents.
However with a guy who folds a lot to squeezes and to cbets it's tough. Need to stove this to estimate our fold equity, but it would be nice to make him fold TT-JJ/KQ.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-29-2014 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babarberousse
With so much equity OTT I'd probably jam vs lots of opponents.
However with a guy who folds a lot to squeezes and to cbets it's tough. Need to stove this to estimate our fold equity, but it would be nice to make him fold TT-JJ/KQ.
I think the cbet is close. But he folds 64% to cbets (in SRP), so i think he folds TT/JJ/(KQ)..

On the turn its sick, he folds to turn cbets 13%. Does he ever folds something here.. We have 32% Pot Equity vs. OnePair Hands. We nearly invest Pot, so we need someting like 15% Fold Equity. But i felt very uncomfortable betting here, cause his WTSD is 29.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote
08-29-2014 , 05:06 AM
If we are cbetting because we think we can fold out TT/JJ some perecentage of the time then its fair to say that TT/JJ only get to the turn some of the time. So his range on the turn is pretty much AQ/QK/QQ with a bit of TT/JJ/99. Maaaybe AK like occasionally. I can't see any other hands he can likely have here.
I don't expect any hand that beats us to fold given his stats and the fact that its a 3bet pot where top pair folds hardly ever imo.

Interesting use of maths with the calculating of fold equity (I've never done that stuff to be honest) and didn't realise we had as much as 32% equity vs pairs, although he can have QQ and sometimes 99 as well.
NL25 with 8bb over 400k hands Quote

      
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