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Missed flush Draw bad Bluff? Missed flush Draw bad Bluff?

03-10-2017 , 06:59 PM
nl2
BB(1.37)
Sb(2.25)
UTG(2.48)
MP(2.10)
CO(1.43)
MeBtn(1.99)A9

preflop 2 folds, CO calls 0.02, Hero raises 0.05, sb folds, BB calls 0.05, CO calls 0.05

FLop10107
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

TurnQ
BB bets 0.16, CO raises 0.32, Hero calls 0.32, BB folds

RIver9
CO bets 0.11, Hero raises 0.62, Co calls

On the flop i could've cbet and maybe taken it down but checked behind for deception to win bigger if i hit. Turn i was thinking i was getting 2-1 on call and could bluff enough to make up for that. I tried to represent the spade flush draw Im wondering if this was the right move because apparently he did not believe me.

Spolier:
Hero mucks
Co calls with JQ
Missed flush Draw bad Bluff? Quote
03-10-2017 , 07:07 PM
Raise to .10 or .12 pre. Bet flop. Fold turn imo. Don't bluff fish ��
Missed flush Draw bad Bluff? Quote
03-11-2017 , 12:23 AM
Iso bigger pre, you're giving him odds to basically call with his entire range there. I think checking and betting are both reasonable on the flop, we block 98, AT, T9, and maybe we don't have much sdv against two players, but it's awkward when we get raised since we don't draw to the nuts and we block bluffs. Someone else might have a better opinion on flop.

I guess we call turn AP because pot odds. Note that BB leads out on turn after flop is checked through and folds to the min bet getting insane pot odds, that indicates that his turn betting range on checked through flops is going to contain air. Against that player in position, I'd like to checkback with my value combos at a higher frequency to let him stab on a lot of turns.

On river, I don't really like the raise since CO can easily have spades himself, I think I like the idea of attacking that sizing on river since maybe 2nl villains will be doing that for thin value with a queen or something, but I'd like to have a relevant spade in our hand for the sake of card removal. I would just call river getting 10:1, not really looking to mess around with his turn raising range.

I disagree with the heuristic "don't bluff fish" because some fish will overfold to postflop raises. Sure, a lot of fish will call down because **** you I have a pair, but I think there's variance in how fish play certain spots. Also, even for players that we recognize as calling stations, we still shouldn't "never" bluff them, we should be bluffing them at a lesser frequency and be more selective of what hands we choose to bluff with. I think this is a spot where we're clearly overbluffing and should be more selective vs. a limper.
Missed flush Draw bad Bluff? Quote
03-11-2017 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsees
Iso bigger pre, you're giving him odds to basically call with his entire range there. I think checking and betting are both reasonable on the flop, we block 98, AT, T9, and maybe we don't have much sdv against two players, but it's awkward when we get raised since we don't draw to the nuts and we block bluffs. Someone else might have a better opinion on flop.

I guess we call turn AP because pot odds. Note that BB leads out on turn after flop is checked through and folds to the min bet getting insane pot odds, that indicates that his turn betting range on checked through flops is going to contain air. Against that player in position, I'd like to checkback with my value combos at a higher frequency to let him stab on a lot of turns.

On river, I don't really like the raise since CO can easily have spades himself, I think I like the idea of attacking that sizing on river since maybe 2nl villains will be doing that for thin value with a queen or something, but I'd like to have a relevant spade in our hand for the sake of card removal. I would just call river getting 10:1, not really looking to mess around with his turn raising range.

I disagree with the heuristic "don't bluff fish" because some fish will overfold to postflop raises. Sure, a lot of fish will call down because **** you I have a pair, but I think there's variance in how fish play certain spots. Also, even for players that we recognize as calling stations, we still shouldn't "never" bluff them, we should be bluffing them at a lesser frequency and be more selective of what hands we choose to bluff with. I think this is a spot where we're clearly overbluffing and should be more selective vs. a limper.
+1, solid post
Missed flush Draw bad Bluff? Quote
03-11-2017 , 06:08 PM
Yah I definitely should have raised bigger pre flop on the button. I think that betting the flop would be best so I don't have to get raised off my draw on the turn. I was in kind of an awkward spot on the turn and then river shouldn't have been attempted. I also never have taken blockers into account yet I should learn more about that.
Missed flush Draw bad Bluff? Quote

      
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