16nlz - 3b Bluff, Turned 2 Pair - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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16nlz - 3b Bluff, Turned 2 Pair

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03-17-2017 , 06:21 PM

bharrison

adept

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 743

Poker Stars, $0.08/$0.16 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37681786

BTN: $125.74 (785.9 bb)
SB: $10.23 (63.9 bb)
Hero (BB): $18.59 (116.2 bb)
UTG: $30.02 (187.6 bb)
MP: $3.21 (20.1 bb)
CO: $16.48 (103 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

UTG raises to $0.40, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1.60, UTG calls $1.20

Flop: ($3.28) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.48, Hero calls $2.48

Turn: ($8.24) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.56, Hero folds

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first off can we just call pre, wasnt sure in game so decided to use as a 3b bluff, also do we have to fold turn now?

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03-17-2017 , 06:33 PM

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762

Definitely a call pre. If you really want to 3bet bluff a random utg open when you're in bb, I'd pick some random suited crap.

Villain's sizings are pretty weird postflop. I think it's fine.

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03-17-2017 , 06:51 PM

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,254

I think its ok to 3bet pre
AP-Call the turn.Sometimes we have the best hand and we have outs if we dont

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03-17-2017 , 07:15 PM

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

I think its ok to 3bet pre

Unless we know villain is overfolding, it's doubtful 3betting is going to yield more EV. Villain having position postflop hurts our ability to realize all of our equity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

AP-Call the turn.Sometimes we have the best hand and we have outs if we dont

What is villain betting with that we possibly beat? 77?

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03-17-2017 , 07:25 PM

2000 East

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 1,288

We can call pre for sure thats what i'd do.

AP its close but don't mind a fold.

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03-18-2017 , 12:00 AM

astrobeaver

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 271

It depends on the opponent but in most scenarios if you're going to play Q9s from the BB, you might as well 3b pre. No fixed "right play" here I guess.

Please don't fold that turn. You have good immediate as well as implied odds.

Its unlikely but if he is randomly bluffing the turn with the weird sizing, the river can possibly go check check when he gives up and you're most likely good. It'll suck but you have to fold if he has enough balls to shove the river with a bluff.

Last edited by astrobeaver; 03-18-2017 at 12:05 AM.

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03-18-2017 , 01:26 AM

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrobeaver

It depends on the opponent but in most scenarios if you're going to play Q9s from the BB, you might as well 3b pre.

Care to explain why you think this is the preferable option?

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03-18-2017 , 01:41 AM

kwawds

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 297

Maybe it's because I'm just unfamiliar with the dynamics of zoom poker, but isn't a fold standard here vs. any random utg raise?

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03-18-2017 , 01:57 AM

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwawds

Maybe it's because I'm just unfamiliar with the dynamics of zoom poker, but isn't a fold standard here vs. any random utg raise?

I don't play zoom either, but we have more than enough equity vs a standard utg opening range to just call profitably. Being in bb we should call with a wider range of hands than we would in other positions, especially if we have a postflop edge over a majority of the player pool. fwiw this is probably towards the bottom of a calling range.

I guess if most 16nlz regs are nits opening like 10% UTG, or if you're not that confident in your postflop abilities relative to the player pool you're in, then flatting isn't nearly as good.

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03-18-2017 , 05:05 AM

#10

ToiletBowler

adept

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,144

Fold this junk pre every hand in UTG opening range dominates you except for 98s.

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03-18-2017 , 06:45 AM

#11

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitemares

Unless we know villain is overfolding, it's doubtful 3betting is going to yield more EV. Villain having position postflop hurts our ability to realize all of our equity.

What is villain betting with that we possibly beat? 77?

I think its ok esp if V dont 4bet us that much.Hand plays ok post fold you fold out some stronger hands like Ax small pocket pairs KQo and its good to have some Qx in our 3bet range vs utg and I dont think we should 3bet AQ so this one looks ok for that.V will have position even if we call.

77 some Ax 9T 9J what ever

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03-18-2017 , 07:19 AM

#12

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToiletBowler

Fold this junk pre every hand in UTG opening range dominates you except for 98s.

More than one thing wrong with this statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

I don't disagree with the first half, but villain betting anything we beat that has sdv is pretty questionable. fwiw I'm more on board with a turn call now than I was, I'm pretty uncertain about what might give a higher EV now.

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03-18-2017 , 07:34 AM

#13

Shamway99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3,348

Wp good fold.

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03-18-2017 , 08:07 AM

#14

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitemares

More than one thing wrong with this statement.

I don't disagree with the first half, but villain betting anything we beat that has sdv is pretty questionable. fwiw I'm more on board with a turn call now than I was, I'm pretty uncertain about what might give a higher EV now.

Yes, imo he should not bet 9T or 77 but ppl do random things sometimes and we have 4 pretty clear outs and if river is T or J we have very good spot to bluff.

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