No, I never finished.

This is the way to play split two pairs: try and make a fuller.

Easy game.

So idealy, if possible, and if villains allows us, we'd go check/check until the river. Hit our boat, bet let's say half pot, and take down a 1 dollar pot with a boat because if for example we bet both the flop + the turn he could never call us twice with AK/JT/AQ/KJ/AJ/ATCrly so we won't make value. When ever he calls us down it's always a set so we're valuetowning ourself? And of course after we fill up, we post it here and tell the world how sick we play 2 pair because we knew river would fill us up.

Sounds like a proper plan sir.

You think someone in this hand has a set of kings or queens based on the play so far? I don't.

I think it's more likely (but not very likely) UTG has AA (because people love to limp/trap with AA) than KK or QQ.

55 is a legitimate holding, then again so is K5 and Q5 for bad players limp/calling.

Your other problem is that you're projecting solid play onto these opponents, and assuming they won't make stupid mistakes.. "If the pot gets big, they'll continue with only sets and fold top pair" you say.

There's no WAY that's true in general. Most poker players are bad - they make mistakes, they suck at poker. They will call top pair down to the river and then get shocked that they're outkicked with their 6 kicker. Then, an hour later, the same thing will happen, and they'll be shocked again. They never translate these events to make the adjustment to stop playing K6, they never improve, they never work on their game. They just keep playing K6s and getting stacked by their kicker. (and sometimes, they flop two pair vs. AK, so why stop playing K6, right?).

Cool story bro:

This past Friday night in the casino, I had a player fire a $30 "value" bet on a K8893 board, and then call my shove. He held K3.

The same player called a $50 river bet on a QTJ32 board with three diamonds holding Q6. He also called a $100 bet on a AKQJT board with three clubs thinking he was chopping (he never saw the third club hit).

This guy time and time again got involved in big pots with crappy hands. If you were his opponent in those three hands, and you were waiting to hold 88 on the first board and AdKd on the second and QcTc for the royal on the third, before getting your stack in, then you are losing out on a TON of money. A ton.

Don't think you can compare live to 2nl live bc. atleast on stars i've never had a family pot, but other then that i think mtagliaf is right! villain will call with a lot of crap, KK and QQ wouldn't limp call, i think you're up against lets say K9s+ KTo+ Q9s+QTo+ and pretty much every pair from 22-TT.

just cbet around 65-70% against 2 players.

lol

So the only thing you think when you flop top two is "full house draw" ?

Pretty much, I've got some hand history's that I can put up later where I just played them like a full house draw, and I end up winning a nice sized pot with them.

If we don't trap with our split two pairs, then what hands do we trap with? What trapping range do you have, since it seems to me like you don't try and trap at all. Why do you think that we don't need a trapping range? Surely then this means that our opponent will never need to think:

''Hmmmm.... I think I might bet here, but then again, what if nismo is trying to trap me, argh, this is such a tough decision!''

See what I mean. ;-)

ugh, just stop please

cool story....

most people think, he checked he must be weak so i'll bet and take this pot right here, oh he calls? he must have some weak top pair kind of hand let me bet the river again.

only reason to check behind is to let other people valuetown themself, i would never check behind here and give hands like AT TJ AK AQ AJ a free chance to outdraw you. you don't need a full house on this board top 2 is good 90% of the time...

Not sure about a trapping range, but what I am sure of is that you are ''trapping'' way way way too much. It simply isn't necessary because as mtagialf mentioned people make way too many calling mistakes.

But Pokie! you're not trapping me again, we're not going to make it an other 7 pages of ''my dad is stronger than yours''

Haha, I'm sorry for trapping you that one time we played a pot together.

Monsters where i know its seriously hard for the villain to have caught any piece of the board, because i connected so well with it. And maybe against monkeys with a sky high AF.

I'm not saying never ever do it just that every hand you post/comment on you seem to be trying to find an excuse to trap/slowplay.

In this hand you want to trap with two pair while trying to keep the pot small and draw to a full house at the same time?

Most players at NL2 don't think like this. It goes more something like this "i have toppest pair, i call!" or "hey, if a 9 comes i'll have the nuts, i better call to the end to see if it does" or "hmm he's probably just cbetting his air i better call in case" or "i think my A high might be good here because he might be betting his missed draws".

I've seen you post some decent hands and stuff and you seem to understand the concepts of NLHE but i shudder to think about the amount of value you might have lost trying to trap with top two or draw to a FH and just generally trying to get fancy.

My "trapping range" (where I'm truly slowplaying) is pretty much when I flop quads or top boat. That's it. I also take check/call lines with showdown type hands (1 pair) when I think aggressive villain will bet for me, but this is more an attempt at pot control out of position than "trapping".

Instead of playing my good hands like they're bad hands (slowplaying/trapping), I would much rather play more bad hands like they're good hands (bluffing/semibluffing). This puts pressure on opponents and forces them to make mistakes, even if they're good players.

Imagine the CO in the hand from this thread is a TAGgy player whose trying to play the right way, and we've been running over the table with a combination of a good run of hands and well-timed aggression. He's got a HUD and sees we're running 24/22 over 100 or so hands and knows we can't have it every friggin time. He's flatted us in position with AK, knowing he's ahead of our range, and he's flopped top pair, top kicker. And here we come out betting pot again. You say he's going to get away from a big pot. I say he's eventually going to have to take a stand against us (at least he thinks he does), and I hope it's this particular hand that he decides to do it.

What concepts of NLHE do I understand, since I sometimes question myself with all the flak that I get on here. It makes me think that I might be a huge wet fish occasionally.

As for treating it like a ''FH draw with showdown value'', then you can call without implied odds since your hand may already be good due to the showdown value element, and you often win their stack when you hit, since they are not expecting you to have the nuts. You play your hand like trips, not like a FH, so they call with trips top kicker, straights, flushes and worse FH's.

Nice fat value if you play it like that in my opinion. :-)

OR:

The CO is waiting for a big hand so that he can take us for our whole stack when he hits, and on this occasion he hits, and we pay him off in full with our weaker hand which really sucks when we could have given him less value than we needed to.