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Old 08-04-2012, 12:53 PM   #1
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Do you cbet these flops?

I am trying to improve my game and I feel one of my problems is which flops to cbet. Below I have made a list of quite a few flops and added what I believe is the correct play given the situation.

I am probably on the right track here... but usually when playing I have trouble thinking about these scenarios so I am trying to get this pounded in to my head before I go making more dumb mistakes.

In each scenario assume if we are IP the BB has called us, and if OOP the button has called us, and in each scenario all others have folded. Assume it's 4NL and both hero/villain have a full stack ($4.00)... also assume villain is not a calling station

Hero holds AK

1) 23J
OOP: cbet
IP: cbet
Notes: What do we do if villain calls and we don't get help? IP? OOP? I am inclined to fire a second barrel whether I am IP or OOP... but if we don't hit by the River should this be a check/fold?

2) 5T3
OOP: check/fold
IP: cbet
Notes: Seems too wet to cbet OOP and I feel it hits a lot of villains calling ranges in some way

3) J42
OOP: check/fold
IP: cbet, check/fold turn

4) 873
OOP: check/fold
IP: cbet, double barrel on safe turn card

5) 53J
OOP: cbet, shutdown on any diamond
IP: cbet, check behind on any diamond

6) 1079
OOP: cbet
IP: cbet

7) 10105
OOP: cbet
IP: cbet

I have more but feel this is a good start to work out some of the kinks in my game.

Last edited by ten25; 08-04-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:06 PM   #2
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

Need to consider what position you're opening from since it should effect villains calling range.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #3
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

And AK is one of the more tricky hands to play, so I'm not sure I'd use it as you example hand.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:08 PM   #4
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatic fringe View Post
Need to consider what position you're opening from since it should effect villains calling range.
Assume from UTG if OOP and the BTN if IP

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatic fringe View Post
And AK is one of the more tricky hands to play, so I'm not sure I'd use it as you example hand.
I know it's a tricky one, but I am trying to focus on what to do after missing the flop because I think this area is one of the weaker parts of my game
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:12 PM   #5
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

When oop why do you cbet number 6 but check fold number 2.?
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:16 PM   #6
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

What is the relationship between board texture and position?
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:35 PM   #7
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

I think 5 IP may be exploitable. I think I barrel there on a diamond OTT. Most of the time your opponent won't have a flush, and a second barrel with a potential flush on the board looks strong and will often pick up the pot.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:55 PM   #8
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatic fringe View Post
When oop why do you cbet number 6 but check fold number 2.?
I feel that Board 6 does not hit villains range as hard as Board 2. I seem to notice the typical ranges people call raises with are suited connectors, suited broadway, suited aces, and any pocket pair.

On Board 2 any club is not going to be a great card for us, even if it's an A or K . There are a whole lot of hands that I think are beating us here and the ones that aren't have some nice equity against us.

Board 6 seems a lot safer to me because all you are really worrying about are sets, J8/68, QJ if it hits... so it seems a lot easier to fire the second barrel depending on the turn card and we probably still have 6 outs compared to 4 on Board 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatic fringe View Post
What is the relationship between board texture and position?
IP for example on board 2 if A or K I am going to feel better about betting if checked to because if villain checks river I can check behind... but OOP if I check the river chances are villain is going to bet big and I can't really call


I might be totally wrong about all this though
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:27 PM   #9
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

very interesting analysis tens. I think you got all of them right, although some are very dependent on opponent. You might want to think about turn barreling cards as well on these boards, its very important you barrel the right cards.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:02 AM   #10
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

Without going in to too much detail Im pretty much betting them all apart from board 6 which I think is the easiest check/fold or check on there.

Just a note on 2 tone boards, the villain dosnt always have a flush draw and they are usually as scared of the flush as you are.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:36 AM   #11
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

cbetting 6 would be horrible
aware btn vs bb IP hits our range more than his bla bla but cakes will call pretty wide pre and hits them hard


i have a lot of problems with hand #7

oop yeah cbet because we can barrel a ton of good cards bla bla but IP i see people check behind a lot

check behind seems good if they lead turns with wide range
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:45 AM   #12
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

cbet all.. 6 is more tricky.. you can c/r some villains OOP profitable.. IP i am cbeting this one.. but your question is too general.. your each decision should be based on your villains.. villain info + board >>>>>>>>>>>> board
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:57 AM   #13
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

Why are all the flops where we are in position an automatic cbet?

Firstly, we are better off checking with AKs and firing a cbet with a hand that has almost no showdown value and that could do with taking the pot down.

Also, when we are in position and deciding whether to cbet against a good player, this is usually because we are trying to steal the blinds and our steal attempt is flatted, (as opposed to a fishy calling station that has limp/called pre-flop from early position).

In that case, our range is pretty wide in this situation so auto cbetting every time is super spew. Our competent villain can check/raise us frequently in this situation, whether he's holding a monster or air.

I would suggest to stop and think about EVERY single cbet you make. The game is more fun that way instead of just doing everything on auto-pilot and trying to come up with standard 'rules' for certain situations. You are correct in realising that board texture is important, but so is our range of hands and the likeliness that we have connected or have an over pair, the same with our villain and whether he is likely to have connected or have an over pair, and the other factor is the opponent's tendencies, does he play fit-or-fold, does he think about our range and will he try to bluff us off our hand etc.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:47 PM   #14
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

@pokie sorta but some of it doesnt make sense

if villain is wide pre on some textures he will fold to much of his range so we have a very profitable cbet

and you talking about oh we cant bet to wide because we get exploited. its uNL not really a concern

and the stuff about AK having showdown value in a lot of cases we wont get to realise our equity in the hand we wont get to showdown so bet prob higher EV than check depends on villain and texture obv

Last edited by metski; 08-06-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #15
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Re: Do you cbet these flops?

It's hard to respond to this thread for all the obvious reasons. But the relationship between position and board texture is that the more 'drawy' a board is the better it is to be in position.

As I suggested, AKs is tough because it can work as a hand with showdown value and as a high equity bluff, so it's just a bad hand to use, since an argument can often be made to play it eIther way.
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