I have a tough time knowing what to do when I get donk bet into. More often than not I will have missed the flop and even when I do hit the flop I will be unsure of how to extract the most value.

I thought I would start by pointing out some things that are obvious to most of the regular players but maybe not everyone:

1. The first thing to do when facing a donk bet is identify the villain and his general tendencies.

2. is to look at stack size and how this may affect the hand.

3. Positions.

4.bet sizing.

5. flop texture.

6. your own hand strength/relative equity

Yep, your standard starting points. You must start thinking about all of these things before you do anything (well you should be doing this in every hand you play anyway, sorry to state the obvious). In general in poker I think it is important to always be thinking about all of your options no matter how silly they might seem.

The most important weapon you have is your information on villain. It will change everything you do in the hand to an extent. I highly recommend trying to take as many notes as you can also utilizing your HUD but not being totally depending upon it. Try to take lots of notes when you see what villains are showing down especially in hands that were played in a non-standard fashion. Using the information gained from what kind of hands he is donk betting (gathered from showdown or from him folding) to adjust to his other actions. E.G. villain is only donk betting air, we have to adjust his range for check/raising or Check/Calling a cbet in future hands. On the flip side of this point, if villain for instance is only C/R his stronger value hands you can weight his donk betting range to air hands/ weaker hands/draws ect. This is not set in stone truth, even donkeys will mix their play sometimes but it is worth noting these things.

So I am going to look at different player types/situations and how I think it is best to adjust VS them.

Loose Passive

The most common situation will be against a loose passive player and weaker players (hence the name donk bet).

These players are passive and donk betting is showing some aggression. I think bet size should play a big factor in what action to take e.g. 1/5 pot donk bet isn't nearly as scary compared to a pot sized donk bet. The latter I will often just fold when missed. A passive player doesn't usually like putting in a lot of money as the aggressor. I think it is better to value/bluff-raise or fold depending on the situation and bet size. Floating is going to be less effective because they are not very good players, can't hand read as well as most and can be exploited more easily. The times I'd call their donk bets would be with hands that are right in the middle strength zone. E.g. TT on a K27r flop is going to be my middle strength hand. It's going to be thin to raise for value and not weak enough to fold.

Here are hand histories that might help me illustrate the way I think (good or bad) or provoke some discussion.

villain in this hand is a 60/4 after 72 hands. Seems like a standard loose passive player.

Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (MP): $100.30
CO: $60.00
BTN: $127.50
SB: $37.50
BB: $118.45
UTG: $49.55
UTG+1: $268.45

CO posts a big blind ($1.00)

Pre Flop: ($2.50) Hero is MP with J A
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero raises to $5, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $4

The size of villains bet seems like the most common for a flop donk. I will raise these almost always and usually get folds. It is an option to call given that I think I will have the best hand pretty often but the board texture is not very good and he will have plenty of hands that have a reasonable amount of equity. So I would rather protect my hand and make him fold his equity share.

Board: 6d 3s 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.661% 51.52% 01.14% 6616572 146274.00 { random }
Hand 1: 47.339% 46.20% 01.14% 5933160 146274.00 { AJo }

As you can see AJo against a random hand isn't doing very well.
When he does call I still assume he can still have a very large range of gut shots and possibly even some over cards or small pairs.

Flop: ($12.50) 6 3 7 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $1.00, Hero raises to $8, UTG+1 calls $7

Turn: ($28.50) Q (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

River: ($28.50) 6 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks



There is a case for firing the turn, it is an over card and the flush gets there. My plan was not to put more money in the pot if he called and I didn't improve. I still like my flop raise as this flop min donk bet is quite often air and if not with a hand like AJ I can expect to win at SD some % of the time as this hand shows, he checked it down and didn't put me in a tough spot.

Most of the time I'd expect this to be the result of the flop raise (especially in this case as I have the NFD and given the board texture) villain is a 40/11 over small sample.

Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $85.85
MP: $117.25
CO: $198.55
Hero (BTN): $117.70
SB: $100.20
BB: $52.40

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with A 6
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($4.50) 5 K K (2 players)
BB bets $1.00, Hero raises to $5, BB folds

Final Pot: $6.50
Hero wins $6.20
(Rake: $0.30)


LAG/Maniac

You don't want to float them with air because they are going to fire further barrels. I find it more effective to set traps and let them do what they really want to, try to push you off of your hand with pure aggression. I think once you have some solid reads you can start to open up your bluff catching range to some extent. You can get into some very tough spots but you have to hold your nerve and make some lighter than normal call downs.

villain in this hand is a 43/25/2.5af 6.5% 3bet over 200 hands, I do not remember many reads because I played the hand a while ago but he fits the bill when it comes to LAG. Cbets flop 90% and bet every turn out of 8 opportunities. He was certainly a weaker player at the table.

Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $20.00
SB: $41.35
BB: $21.50
UTG: $100.00
UTG+1: $325.50
UTG+2: $127.60
MP1: $18.50
MP2: $106.50
Hero (CO): $103.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with K K
4 folds, MP2 raises to $5, Hero raises to $13, 3 folds, MP2 calls $8

Flop: ($27.50) Q 3 5 (2 players)
MP2 bets $10.00, Hero calls $10

So this hand is a little bit different because it is a 3bet pot but the villain is opening so much it is still almost the same as an iso raise but with shallower stacks post flop. I would in this case be 3betting him with a wider value range as he is also only folding to 13% of 3bets.

He leads into me for 1/3 psb. On this flop in particular I still consider my hand to be the nuts. It is actually pretty dry even though there is a flush draw that's about all I am worried about and flush draws are a tiny part of his range. If I had a hand like AJ it is a spot I would always raise if I was going to continue with it.

So I am way ahead a vast majority of the time and I want to get more monies in the pot. I call and let him continue to think I am weak and let him be aggressive or even catch up a little bit.

Turn: ($47.50) 2 (2 players)
MP2 bets $12.00, Hero raises to $27, MP2 raises to $42, Hero raises to $80, MP2 calls $38

I was expecting a much larger bet on the turn, it seems more common to me when they think I can't stand the heat and increase their perceived fold equity but he makes this tiny bet. So I actually thought at this point he can have a lot of Ax hands with a gutter and over card trying to see a cheap river or possibly 66/44 and 77-JJ. I wanted to set the river up to accommodate the rest of the money so I have to raise. I didn't want to blow him off of a weak pair but also thought he could decide to shove over my raise with those weaker draws if I made a smaller raise. He obliges and I stick it in over the turn 3bet. Pretty sure that calling will be a disaster as he can now C/F some of the time when he misses the river but I'm sure he is capable of sticking it in when missed and would like to hear others opinions on this.

River: ($207.50) A (2 players)




Weak tight

I was finding it hard to get any hand history files with a weak tight player donk betting into me. So I have found something close to that.

In general I'd expect a weak tight to donk bet mainly his strong/medium hands not so much air (this is probably a running theme with most villains), although I do think a lot of them are the type that can donk bet tiny and be bluff raised every time. Also on boards that are much wetter I sense his thinking is to protect his hand. The problem is trying to define what villain thinks is a strong hand as every villain is different. Also you should expect them to still have some odd bluffs on occasion, just not as much as others. Like what I stated before, it would be a good idea to look at his check raise frequency to help define his range.

So Vs a weak tight I wouldn't be looking to try and bluff raise their donks as much. I do think however they are weak tight and can be exploited with bluffs. These may come in the form of scare cards on later streets and is probably going to be more situation dependent.

villain is a 13/6 after 80 hands. I have a note on him saying he checked back quads on the river, so he might play somewhat trappy.

pre flop range is going to be lots of pocket pairs, he hasn't 3bet at all so I would still include premium hands as strong as AK and QQ. He might not even 3bet AA/KK much as he likes to be trappy in other spots. I'd still expect him to call with some weaker broadway hands like QJ KJ KQ as well.

Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $49.25
BTN: $17.80
SB: $11.95
BB: $50.75
UTG: $9.45
Hero (UTG+1): $194.85
MP1: $13.50
MP2: $63.10

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG+1 with A Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 5 folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.25) Q 3 6 (2 players)
BB bets $2.00, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $6

His bet size is small enough that I believe he can show up with some mid pairs 66-JJ as well as TP hands like QJ KQ and KK/AA. He hasn't check raised over the 80 hands yet so all the sets should be included as well.
So from that range of hands I suppose he is leading I am a big favourite.
Board: Qc 3h 6d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 72.552% 67.89% 04.66% 42342 2908.50 { AhQh }
Hand 1: 27.448% 22.78% 04.66% 14211 2908.50 { AcAd, AdAh, AhAs, KcKd, KdKh, KhKs, QQ-66, 33, AQs, KQs, QJs, AQo, KQo, QJo }

The problem is I don't really know what he is going to call a raise with. Given that his stats indicate he may be on the weak tight side, I might blow him off of everything I am crushing and end up with most of the hands that crush me.

So I'll estimate a sensible calling range:

Board: Qc 3h 6d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 55.496% 46.59% 08.90% 15222 2908.50 { AhQh }
Hand 1: 44.504% 35.60% 08.90% 11631 2908.50 { AcAd, AdAh, AhAs, KcKd, KdKh, KhKs, QQ, 66, 33, AQs, KQs, QJs, AQo, KQo, QJo }

I basically took out all of the mid pairs. A raise with that continuing range seems slightly thin as it is but if he is more weak tight then this then it is clearly a mistake to raise the flop.

Even if I believe I can get some thin value in a flop raise it is probably a more +EV play to call and re-evaluate the turn, in particular his bet size and or actions. The board is very dry, there is not really anything wrong with letting another card peel off.

Turn: ($20.25) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $12.50, BB calls $12.50

River: ($45.25) T (2 players)
BB bets $28.25, Hero calls $28.25



I guess turn is standard but debatable. On the river I basically have a bluff catcher and it probably isn't a spot he is going to bluff often enough to make my call a good one.

If it turned out the villain was a loose passive player I would certainly say this hand was a cooler. I appeared to have played him as if he was and that was probably a function of playing to many tables (go me).


TAGs.

seems much less common for a TAG to donk bet into me. This can sometimes make me feel somewhat lost. The first thing I am inclined to do is float more or bluff raise but I feel there is no real general strategy and should be very villain/situation specific.

Villain is a regular and a 2+2er. I have him at 14/12 2.5% 3bet over 1.2K hands. He 3bets 3% out of the big blind and flats about 7% of the time.

Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $138.55
MP2: $100.00
Hero (CO): $100.00
BTN: $241.90
SB: $103.50
BB: $104.00
UTG: $51.50
UTG+1: $70.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with J K
4 folds, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, BB calls $2

when he donk bets this flop I expect him to have missed a large % of the time or be very weak. I'm going to look at some scenarios and think about what is most likely in my experience.

1. He has TP and is now trying to get value. If he had a strong Ace most of these would be 3bet pre. Let's say he flat with Ax, he is going to be much better off check calling. I will be cbetting this flop texture 90% of the time. The same applies for 88-KK pocket pairs, main difference being 88-JJ are much more vulnerable but there is not much value in leading these pairs.

2. He hit his set and leads out. Pretty much the same thinking as 1. No need to lead when someone is cbetting this 90% of the time. He could take a line like CR flop, C/C flop then C/C turn CR river or dk river, C/C flop and lead turn ect... all depending on what he thinks will get the most value.

3. He missed with hands like KQ KJ QJs 22 33 44 66 maybe some SC or possibly 88-TT just wanting to take it down. I think this can be a good thing to do some of the time instead of CR this flop. When he CR he is representing a reasonably small range. e.g. draws, there aren't that many in his range and only 2 sets (6 combos). Most FR regs won't CR a hand like TPTK.
Sometimes this could be a bet to induce a raise or further action from hero. Most of the time this isn't the case but if villain believes you to be a very aggressive player this can be a great move especially if villain can do it with a wider value range but I wouldn't expect anything like that unless you have a very specific dynamic (or villain is just an ultra aggressive player).

So I think he is weak a large % of the time. Now what? do I raise? do I call? do I fold?

Fold: seems weak to me and I think it will let him run me over in future situations but its not the worst thing you could do.

Raise: If I go ahead and raise the flop I have to think about what I'm representing and how villain may react to it. Villain isn't a donkey and is a good thinking player. I have a much wider range then him pre flop from the CO, something like 25+% of the time I'm going to be opening. If I raise I'm representing a pretty strong range of draws, sets and 2 pairs but that's fairly small % of what I'm likely to have in this spot. A lot of the time I think villain will interpret a raise as weak, that he may have induced from leading. This could lead him to turn his weak hand/air into a bluff and 3bet me. It will let him call/3bet with all his stronger hands and basically put me in a situation where I'm going to be lost if he doesn't fold.

Floating: When I call I can rep a much larger range. mid pairs, draws, weak TP, strong TP, 2pairs maybe even sets and because I have position I can see what he does on the turn. Also remember that some of the time if I am behind I can catch up and I will actually have the best hand a certain % of the time at SD. I don't think I will have the best hand enough of the time to warrant getting to SD but I would sometimes get to SD just to get a better idea of what villain is donk betting. I don't recommend doing that unless you play a lot of hands with villain and it will be actually worth it.


Flop: ($6.50) 5 7 A (2 players)
BB bets $5.00, Hero calls $5

Turn: ($16.50) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $10.00, BB folds

The turn is a relative blank (unless he has 99). When he checks to me it's giving me the green light to go ahead with my plan and bet.

Final Pot: $16.50
Hero wins $15.70
(Rake: $0.80)

1st reading now

2st and read before replying

will read, thx!

Good stuff as always!

well done RB360!

tl;dr

Thanks looks good. Will read it later.

thanks for this, have been trying to figure out this topic quite recently. will read and respond later.

Nice job.

Very good post. How are you running against all of the donk bets you have experienced? From your examples in the post (either intentional or not), it appears that you are running -EV against donk bets.

thanks, you made me actually look this up. After 2500 donk bets I'm running 11PTBB/100 have no idea if that is good or bad. Guess it can't be that bad.

very nice post!

hand vs weak tight player is definetely an easy fold on the river though because the worst hand he is ever showinig up here is like QTs. I also think that his range for donking here is reasonably tighter than the one you gave him, esp I doubt he is ever donking JJ-77 here.

nice read will definitely improve my understanding this situation, since for me donkbet used to equal raising ATC..

Looks good. Skimmed it, have to digest speed read information.

actually I am running bad as I just realised my EV adjusted WR is 30PTBB/100+

yeah, I wasn't really sure about the range. I did include KK+ but not as many combos and I guess I could have added the same amount of combos for the bottom of his range as well (should have included QT and maybe some other hands). Either way I don't think I played the hand very well and was possibly drunk :P

From my perspective, anything positive is good. So, bully for you!

Your response also made me look on how I am going. What are your search parameters? I searched on after pf raise and facing a raise and I eeked out just over 7bb/100 for 283 hands. This recently came from a 500bb down swing to a positive number. I must have done something right intuitively.

I used the HEM filters in 'More Filters' players on flop is equal to... 2, flop was bet into = true, faced preflop 3bet = false, faced preflop 4bet = false, pfr = true.

I don't know if I like your parameters. This turned me negative. I guess, I can find solace in the fact my translation between HEM and PT isn't accurate. (Ignorance is bliss!) I need to work on analyze PT more intensely. You may have brought out a leak, so I am reviewing the post one more time. Thank you!

18th ish. Good stuff.

Good job RB, nice post!

That weak/tight hand looks so much like a value bet from his part on the river. I'd fold that vs him, against a weaker player you'll probably see a small bet or a PSB there a lot depending if it's a weak made hand or air.

havent bothered reading the post yet. I will but i had to say awesome avatar!

Excellent post. Love the hand examples provided.

Lol!

Very nice post.

Excellent post RB.

One thing that frustrates me a lot is when I raise a 2bb donk bet on the flop with air or overcards and face another 2bb donk on the turn. Folding to a 2bb donk in a pot that is anywhere between 20 and 30bb seems ridiculous, though raising seems spewy as the re-donk on the turn is usually a sign that villain is either drawing and not folding or determined to get to showdown and you're not going to stop them from doing so. The problem is, if I just flat the turn donk and still do not improve it looks really weak and usually results in some kind of 1/3 - 1/2 psb that I cannot call. Any advice on how I should be thinking about these situations?

Just don't float calling stations. I know it sucks to fold to a 2BB donk bet on the flop, but when someone with a low AF suddenly comes to life they usually have a hand. I prefer to raise/fold, and if they call re-eval the turn, here rather than float. This of course is assuming it's these idiot loose-passives who are donking into you this small (which is usually the case from my experience). If they will call you with mid pair no kicker when you float, just muck it on the flop and wait til you have a hand to valuetown the hell out of them (TPTK is the nuts against these guys).


I could be way off but that's just my take on it. My head always explodes when I try and push one of these guys off a hand and they show up with 107 on a AK1064 board.