Thanks, this article helped alot!

Great thread, thank you a lot!
I'm a 6max player, but I think I can learn from this topic too. I know, that long time ago nobody wrote here, but I make a try, maybe someone can help me. Can you answer, how these things applying to 6max? Can I use every advice from the first posts too? I have 48k hand combined NL20-30 breakeven, and these are my positional winrates in PTBB:
Button: 11,07
CO: 14,45
MP: 9,96
UTG: 3,46
SB: -16,77
BB: -13,66
Am I bleeding too much money in the blinds, or should I look for the mistakes somewhere else? I analyze hands daily, but I think I have an allaround strategic problem too with my play. I'm playing 22/18 with 42 Attempt to steal, 3bet is 4,6%, flop cbet 60, turn cbet 46 Fold to steal from SB is 85,11, from the BB is 77,11. If anyone can reply, I thank you a lot!

Thanks for the great thread. I am currently experiencing a pretty bad nonSD winrate. Verneer mentioned that a nonSD Winrate>5bb/100 indicates leaks, and although some of my graphs do have negative red lines, I'm not quite sure how to analyze them. I am just wondering if perhaps more of my nonSD leaks are located postflop, or if I'm just missing something preflop. Your input is greatly appreciated, mpethy. Thanks in advanced.

Stats (41k hands for the month of october)
13.6/11.1/2.39, flopcbet% 59.3, turn cbet% 71.3, W$WSF 41.4, WTSD% 25.3, W$SD% 57.3
winrate: 2.77bb/100
nonSD winrate: -5.95bb/100
SB: -9.83bb/100
BB: -56.06bb/100


Cold Calling from the Blinds
did cold call=true
SB: 191.83bb/100
BB: 6.78bb/100


Steals
winrate: 123.38bb/100
nonSD winrate: 83.79bb/100
steal pct: 32.4
overall steal success: 61.4


Calling Preflop 3bets
called preflop 3bet=true
winrate: 259.50bb/100
nonSD winrate: -153.33bb/100


Cbetting
PFR=true, flop cbet made=true
winrate: 453.74bb/100

AND turn cbet made=true
winrate: 947.86bb/100


Float Success
called flop cbet = true
winrate: 326bb/100
nonSD winrate: 200.5bb/100


light 3betting from blinds
winrate: -271.54bb/100
nonSD winrate: 63.71


My overall 3betting from blinds is positive, however

Is OP still analyzing graphs/stats?

Every now and again. I don't have my A game at the moment, I'm sick and have been making some pretty detailed strat posts, so I'm pretty whipped.

It looks to me like your game is fundamentally sound, and you have a few leaks that are dragging your win rate down just a bit.

The biggest potential problem I saw in looking at your stats was that your WR when you cold call from the blinds is way lower than it needs to be for you to offset your folds. You were at about 7bb/100 hands, and a reasonable target figure is 100bb/100 hands.

That could just be variance; even in a really big sample, your big blind sample is only 11% of your total hands, and you only cold call 10% of those.

But leaking when playing the big blind is a very common leak. It comes primarily from playing too fit or fold with a range that does not flop well often enough to be played fit or fold. The most common problem hands are the broadway hands that you don't 3 bet, such as AQ, AJ, KQ and KJ. It is very common to see this group of hands losing money for players.

You can approach this leak in several ways--you can elect to 3 bet them more often if you're comfortable with playing 3 bet pots OOP, or you can keep cold calling with them and try to get a little extra value when they flop well (this often entails taking a line other than a bluff catching line), making moves when you flop a decent draw or a couple of bad draws, and losing less when they lose, by paying very very careful attention to the c-betting stats of the player you're in against.

There's no easy fix. The best suggestion I can make is to treat every cold call from the blinds as a situation that needs to be played as perfectly as possible. You're OOP , you don't have the initiative, and you're not usually going to have a big skill edge. It's an extremely marginal situation, where even the very best players will hardly be doing better than 1bb/hand profit, so you can't make many mistakes at all and expect to show a profit.

Gotta run right now, but I think just working on your cold calling should be enough leak busting to get you started.

How did you come up with those numbers? Are there math/theory behind it or it's just analysis from databases?

Thanks

Great post! helped me alot thanks

+1

What a thread, epic

when you guys filter did cold call and called flop cbet for floats thats including your value hands too though.
how do you filter it so its just showing hands you have no pair or something.

just add filter "hand strength less than TP? or something?

Great post OP, will review my stats ASAP. Do these winrates even work/count for NL2/NL5, and does this mean that if you reach these numbers you have to move up? Or is it worthwhile checking the leaks first?

nl 50 6 max.... [IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

Thanks for linking me here Mpethy.

Can anyone help me with my graph?

It's horrible, I know, what am I doing wrong?

1. Posting in the wrong thread.

2. Posting graphs of 1500 hands or w/e; come back after another 38,000 hands or so.

3. Calling with the worst hand.

very solid.

I have a question: how is possibile in the graph from position(6max) that the hand from EP are more then the hand played from blinds...... this is a fake.... becouse u start playing from blinds so is impossible that u play more hand from other position than blinds.
If the OP wanna reply im glad to hear....
Btw sorry for the language i know i write like a dog

the graphs in the OP are full ring, and there are 3 early positions (UTG, UTG+1, and UTG+2).

lool my bad i though was a 6max. so sorry again and nice post(was looking suspiciosu that all other stuff were correct loool), it was right my mom, always count to 10 before talk

It took 3 years, and 76,000 page views, but somebody finally figured it out.

This thread is extremely interesting reading, thanks mpethybridge.

My question is regarding c betting. My sample is only 37k hands total but so far I know I'm more in the quantity camp. 84.35% on flop (58.8% success). 57.55% on turn (33.33% success). I know I need to bring my Flop c bet down by accessing flop situations better.

By running the filters you suggested though I get a strange result. When I filter for any Raise PF and C-bet my win rate is 291bb/100. (Sample size 1230 hands) When I also C-bet the turn my win rate is 592bb/100. (Sample size 251hands)

This figures appear to be in your quality camp?

When I filter for Raise PF / C-Bet Flop / See turn / Check turn I am -304bb/100 (Sample size 220 hands)

Any thoughts? Or am I just no where near enough hands to draw any reasonable conclusions yet. Thanks!

Sorry my Flop c-bet success % over 37k hands is 48.8% not 58.8% (That would be nice!)

Very nice thoughts and posts in this thread.
I'd like to bring up an example where increasing redline may affect negatively blue line. F.e. we decide to c/r bluff AI flop 3bp. If villian folds, our non-showdown winnings will increase. If he calls and we're naturally beat, we lose at showdown so it decreases our showdown winnings. Am I right or I'm missing something?

48.8 success is high, keep cbetting all air. Bring it down by checking back your medium/weak pairs and some protected TP.

Hi guys, we still doing analysis here? I've posted my full red line analysis here.

http://poker.harvey.pw/10nl-red-line-analysis/