ok sick thanks


another q i had is that uh, I find a general trend in my .5/1 and 1/2 graphs of my redline and blueline criss crossing, with the redline primarily being slightly bigger than the blueline.

My wrs are pretty good but Im wondering if this is leaking some potential profit/a cause for concern, or if its more of a playstyle thing.

is -17bb/100 combined blind winrate even attainable/sustainable?

it's very rare to find a player who has red>blue>green in their graph. you would probably benefit from doing some DB analysis looking at how certain plays are performing, and seeing if you could add/delete things. I rarely suggest someone with a R>B>G graph do anything drastic to their strategy (unless the G = negative, ldo)...rather they add/delete things more slowly and less drastically than someone with a -40* sloped redline or w/e

definitely. I am personally -1.5pbtbb/100 over my last 300K at NL100

that would be probably the nut aggregate blind loss rate (assuming over a sample) that i have ever seen.

huh..So yer winrate at SB and BB is -3bb/100 over 300k hands?

its actually trending more red now, as the game has change the last few months. It got really artificially good over the first 8 months of Rush because of weird stuff people were doing in LP, there was a ton of fat value from the blinds. I was actually net positive through September from the two positions. Now that the play is normalizing a little I think I will be stabilized at -10-15ptbb/100 combined for the two.

dayum..

I posted my thoughts on blind play in my 10K post. But I don't think I have any formula, because I think its too game condition based. At NL100 I saw some huge exploits (that knn05 pointed me towards), did some studying and implemented some basic strategy. But the last three weeks, those fat value situations are not as prevelant as they were just two months ago. Maybe the game has changed, mabye I am missing something, or maybe there is so much more preflop drama that it overshadows those simple spots in the blinds.

Shameless bump for info

Winrate has been horrible over last 75k so trying to find if its me or just running bad.

"-60bb/100 (-30PTBB/100) as an aggregate loss rate from the blinds is the standard aiming point

(unless this randomly changed over the last few months)" split

My blind loss assuming I filtered it right is -28bb/100

From BB -41bb/100

From SB -15bb/100

So I am assuming this is not bad then on average?

Just trying to find where I might be bleeding money.

I thought it was suppose to be a combined rate and not a average

I was not clear on that that is why I post both lol. I have a feeling it is combined though which makes mine like -56bb/100?

Yea, that way mine is in the 70's

that is corect

One of my big Aha! moments was on realising that poker is all about the blinds. If there were no blinds, the rational play would be to sit and only play AA. It is the existence of the blinds that make the game so awesome. Most players can manage to play AA v KK successfully. In fact most big pots play themselves when you have understood the basics. The big difference between good and bad players is in the small pots; do you win more than you lose? And a huge proportion of these small pots occur when you are in the blinds.

I'm now going to study blind stealing and defence like crazy!

OP you are a wonderful human being, TY fantastic thread.

mine is an appalling -80bb/100 over the last 40k hands.

lifetime I'm -70bb/100 in the blinds.

So far this month over 20k hands I'm -85bb/100

why do I suck so much in the blinds ?

Oh **** me, so it is. THANK YOU! (srs)

Red line has nothing to do with the blinds, because everybody at the table pays the same amount of blinds. If you fold your BB in game #1, then fold your SB in game #2, and you steal the blinds from the next two players in game #3, you are breaking even, also in your red line. So the red line has NOTHING to do with the blinds, maybe only with the rake you pay, but if people fold you don't pay rake, so even then it has NOTHING to do with the blinds. If your red line is negative, it means you are folding more hands to your opponents in marginal situations, and if it's positive you make them fold more in marginal situations. I had a negative line also for a long time, but for the last 10,000 it's positive, and this includes paying the blinds. I was quite surprised at first that this is only the result from some minor changes in my game. Actually my goal was to try to make the red line stay horizontal, but to my own surprise it's up for about half of my green line now, going parallel with my blue and yellow line. So I think it's a leak if people have a red line that is constantly going down, even at the micros. But I have to add, that you have to be extremely concentrated to achieve this, not playing too many tables at the same time (4-6 tables max at the micros) and probably only 1 or 2 at higher stakes. Also don't play for more than 60 minutes in a row, or your concentration will go down. Also your blue line will suffer from a better red line (I had a 55% W$SD and it dropped to 51-52%) but still it's going up. But the important thing is that you can improve your red line with better play, but NOT YOUR BLUE LINE. Blue line is just showdowns, coinflips, people who call your advanced bluffs, and donks who push with any two cards and who you can call with QQ+. So you simply have not so much influence on these things. If you feel like tilting just look at your blue line. If it goes down you know that you probably just had a bad streak of cards, not because of bad play (well, maybe also that, but if you have a brain your blue line must eventually go up again). The real thing you have to worry about, is that your red line is exactly the opposite of your blue line, going slightly down like a downhill slope. Of course I could have been on a heater for the last 10K hands, but it feels like I fixed a leak so I just keep on playing like this and see if things keep going as expected. I went from 2 BB/100 to 5 BB/100 so I hope I can keep going like this.

XL.

wrong. just because everyone pays the same amount of blinds doesn't mean that blinds don't effect the RL, ldo

much more elegant than my response.

Whats his title under his name?

hahaha

Newbies are newbies

and I am a newbie

Therefore I love this thread =D

Well, the blinds effect the red line the same way like it does for everybody, so the blinds are not the reason that it goes down. Players with an upwards red line also pay blinds. If your red line goes down 0,5 ptBB by folding a blind, it also means that the red line of the person you folded to is going up 0,5 ptBB at the same moment, with the same amount! Think about that for a moment. If you steal it from the button, you get back the blinds you just folded, so if you play correctly they can not be the reason that it goes down in a straight slope. Moreover, folding blinds can not even effect the red line because of the rake, because if you fold preflop you also don't pay any rake!

The reason that a red line is going down in a straight slope is not that you pay the blinds, the reason is that you fold hands. If you fold 90% of your blinds, it means that you have to gain them back by raising the button and cutoff, and picking the right spots to call or re-raise. Therefore the blinds are not the reason that somebody's red line is going down. The reason usually is that those people play too passively.

the entire equation for the RL is pretty vast. the factors include everything from stealing, blind defense, blind calling, free plays, SB completion rates, 3betting, 4betting, 5betting, CBing, dubbing, tripping, CRing, betsizing, and a multitude of other factors. obviously the fact that you pay the blinds doesn't mean anything about your particular RL shape. but to say that the blinds don't effect the RL is wrong. The blinds are one of the biggest factors in RL shape, because most people cannot drastically overcome the loss/oribt that they create. obviously some people can, but most cannot.

also, there are people that have RL>GL/BL but have lower WRs than ppl with the standard BL>GL>RL. different skill sets and thresholds will create different graph shapes...it doesn't necessarily mean that one is better than another in a vacuum...